GS timing belts / tensioners

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2cy
Posts: 92
Joined: 09 Dec 2015, 00:04
Location: Suffolk, England
My Cars: 1974 Citroen-Cimos Ami Super Berline Luxe

Re: GS timing belts / tensioners

Post by 2cy » 16 Dec 2015, 20:37

No apologies needed Derek. I'm most grateful for your explanation and illustration. ;)
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User avatar
2cy
Posts: 92
Joined: 09 Dec 2015, 00:04
Location: Suffolk, England
My Cars: 1974 Citroen-Cimos Ami Super Berline Luxe

Re: GS timing belts / tensioners

Post by 2cy » 16 Feb 2016, 16:31

I need to now move on and buy some cam-belts for my Ami-Super. After further research I remained totally confused as to which manufacturer was better, and then also how to get belts which were recently manufactured, rather than having been on the shelf for five or more years (..their shelf life being typically 5-years). Because of the perishable nature of rubber + unknown supplier & storage + low turnover of 1015cc GS engine parts + the critical nature of cam-belts ...especially on a high revving air-cooled (hot) engine - then E-bay shopping was out (even though I did spot some new-old-stock Citroen belts being advertised).

I was certain that I didn't want Chinese, and so further internet searching led me to 'Gates', who I gather are an Colorado, American company. Gates cam-belts have a 7-year shelf life and a 2-year guarantee once fitted. From what I can glean ; most other manufacturers seem to use a 5-year shelf life + 1 year once fitted. Therefore, bearing in mind American consumer laws, I reckoned Gates would be about the best I might get.

I telephoned Gates' offices in Dumfries and asked to speak to their technical department ..Couldn't get through straight away so I left a message. Pleased to report that they phoned me back within the hour. I specifically wanted to know about the life of these belts and Gary in that department kindly advised of their 7 + 2 years. He also conveyed that Gates belts are sold in the UK through FPS., and gave me their Maidstone telephone number. However before the end of our conversation - he had checked up the part number, and that their guaranteed also covered the Ami Super (as well as the GS 1015). It's not always the case when an engine is used in different models because of differing stresses (vehicle weight, gearing, rev's etc.), the engine state of tune, engine cooling, auxillary loading, etc. He also checked FPS stock records and advised that they had non in stock.

Further conversation led to fact of the matter that, with such a low turnover (so few 1015cc engined Citroens still on the road) - it's unlikely that there was going to be a new moulding any time soon (if at all). This of course leads us to reason that any Gates belt (for the 1015cc engine) now being sold is already old stock. Some may be fine but without checking each code then you cannot be sure.. So, with Gates belts being unavailable - I'll have to shop elsewhere.

I had previously looked on Französische Klassiker Onlineshop and their price was 69-euro, supplying Continental belts ..but are presently out of stock for the 1015cc motor. Likewise, I had also spoken to Chevronics earlier today and they have belts for £39 pr. which are made by Dayco. As Dayco supply O.E. belts to Ford I guess they'll be good. Apparently their stock came in a the beginning of the year, so it should be reasonably fresh.. Rob is not in today so I'll speak to him tomorrow regarding whether I'll need tensioners. I cannot see that I do because my engine has only done 30k miles, but still it's sensible to ask advice of someone with his experience. I expect to order those belts and a full gasket / seal set for the engine too.

Progress :-)
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2cy
Posts: 92
Joined: 09 Dec 2015, 00:04
Location: Suffolk, England
My Cars: 1974 Citroen-Cimos Ami Super Berline Luxe

Re: GS timing belts / tensioners

Post by 2cy » 19 Feb 2016, 21:21

I've had a laborious time on the interweb this week.. aside from desperately trying not to get frustrated &/or despondent... I have found that Continental , still have GS 1015 cambelts listed as 'active' - ie., they are still available.

I then found these at Mister-Auto.co.uk and so I phoned through to Rob at Chevronics who had put aside a pair of 'late packaged', but otherwise unknown dated, Quniton Hazell belts for me. He was kind enough to let me retract from buying those., and so I ordered the ContiTech ones. These were £24.25 pr. and as I was ordering other stuff and the total was over £39 - the carriage was nil.

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/timing- ... _g306.html ...Rob tells me that sometimes the quality of some of their parts is not always the best, and they have been known to supply wrong parts. With brand named items I hope that will not be an issue with my order.
NB. They ship out of France or Belgium and so delivery can take up to a week)

And for those who want to be really bored ...read on..

My 'research' leads me to believe that the last of Quinton Hazell ( both in the UK and in France) folded in February 2013. :( This was bought by Tetrosyl. Tetrosyl Cutting Oil is the well known car-care product : T-cut. Anyways-up.., amidst a flurry of snazzy new brand packaging.. QH was relaunched in May '13.. Tetrosyl then sold off most of the QH company assets, stock and manufacturing rights. Some of which ended up in the hands of a Scandinavian group ...who do supply automotive alternator, timing, and other belts. They relaunched their QH in the December. Each have their own packaging - using a derivative Red Welsh Dragon ..of QH. And so I conclude my dear Watson... that the late packaging.. Rob (Chevronics) said his QH belts were in - would have been 2013+.

Now, I don't know if old stock was repackaged by either or both of these companies but, being from the motor industry myself ..I'd hazard a guess it was. #-o I'd also assume that Tetrosyl didn't produce any new timing belts for 40-year old cars, because ; a) they weren't interested in that product range, & b) it was only a short time before they stripped assets and sold off unwanted branches of the business ..with lots of valuable stock (oops.. freshly packaged old stock) on the shelves. It's reasonable then ; that any savy business concern, who bought the production rights and QH name, would have compared 'their' newly acquired product-list against QH sales figures ...and then simply pruned-out anything for very low-volume vehicles &/or older than say 15-20 years old. And rather than ship & warehouse the old stock - it would have been disposed of through the market trade, with no warrantee given nor implied.

If.., such wild assumptions are near close - then even newly-packaged timing-belts were in stock at the time of factory closures. ie were produced at the very latest four years ago, in 2012. And the very slow-turnover stock (like the belts for a G10/G12 1015cc) might already have been in the warehouse for anything up to their shelf-life (5 years). Now.., 3-4 years later on, and even with the new packaging - these rubber parts might already be eight or nine years old.

In short newish packaging.. but of unknown vintage inside. [-X
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