GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

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macplaxton
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GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 15 May 2015, 14:42

What is ahead of me? Is it fun? Is it easy?

The part I have ordered is currently in transit from Germany (and still in Germany), so I'm just bracing myself for this journey of discovery. :lol:

When I bought the car it had a fresh Y-piece, middle pipe and rear silencer. The bracket on the Y-piece has rusted through/fatigued on one side for the throaty sound. Rest of the system would appear okay, but I haven't closely investigated. I do a have a stainless middle and rear in the shed when I bought a job lot of parts ages ago.
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by citronut » 15 May 2015, 18:09

i have two brand new 5 speed Y pipes and probably got a 4 speeder somewhere,

there not to bad to do you may have to slaken the front pipe front joints to allow them to float a bit to line there rear ends up to the flange's of the Y pipe,
trouble is ones you loosen the front end clamps you will almost certainly need to fit fresh jointing paste in those joints as well,
you might be able to do this without removing the undertray :twisted: #-o :-D :wink:

i always smear some jointing paste in the bell ends of all the flange joints
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macplaxton
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 19 May 2015, 16:43

DPD man rocked up today just outside the proposed 1hr window sent by text this morning.

Image
IMG_20150519_143653_879 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Even came with the clamps included. :)
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 09 Jun 2015, 22:42

This turned out to be a slowish job as the some brilliant engineer decided to make the two open ends of the Y-piece join between the subframe and the steering rack where there is bugger all room to swing a spanner.

It looks like I had to undo the original clamps. The rear one was a piece of cake. The front pairing was problematic not just because of the restricted access. The last person who owned the car had changed the exhaust from this point rearward and (in)conveniently utilised the original clamping arrangement of M7 bolts and brass nuts. They weren't tight, but I did have to use a pair of 11mm spanners to stop things going round, and round, and round. Plus the area was a bit oily. When I say a bit, I mean quite a lot.

Helpful where the new clamps I received with the IMASAF Y-piece:

Image
IMASAF 02.50.53 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr
Image
IMASAF 02.50.53 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Although these use M8 nuts, I crucially didn't have to hold the bolt and I could orientate the passenger side one so I could get at both the nuts from underneath the car and with the driver's side one I put one bolt in one direction and the second bolt in the other direction. This allowed me to tighten one up easily from below and the other by climbing up and "planking" across the front of the engine and reaching down to the upper nut.

With the Y-piece successfully gooed in place. I looked at the middle and rear sections. The middle bit wasn't looking that great. The rear was looking better, but the join between the pair would probably be too much grief to separate. Luckily taking up space in my shed was a middle and rear section in stainless steel which I acquired a good few year back as part of a job lot of GS bits. So I decide to fit the lot while I was at it.

Image
Stainless Steel Exhaust 1 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Tailpipe is bent a little different:

Image
Stainless Steel Exhaust 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Collar and grub screw that holds the right-hand mount from sliding off the rod.:

Image
Stainless Steel Exhaust 8 by macplaxton, on Flickr

Having changed the Y-piece I looked at the old one and couldn't find the hole I thought I remembered seeing.... I started the car up after I'd finished fitting everything and the blowing noise was still apparent. I shoved my head under the bonnet and found my problem really quickly:

Image
Hotspot pipe rear offside 2 by macplaxton, on Flickr

DOH!

I think it was that all along and the rest of it could of stayed on a bit longer. I'm really annoyed as I've been fixing things way long enough to know better. I think maybe a bit more sleep might help.
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 14 Jun 2015, 10:26

I think we have all been there at some stage - I certainly have.

As you say - sleep on it and re-appraise. It's the mental approach that needs most work, then things start to fall into place. Frustrating though.
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 26 Jun 2015, 15:17

About to enter this twilight zone myself. Started chuffing quite well this-morning. Have ordered parts from Germany at half the cost of those in England (including VAT and carriage). Left and right front pipes (one is perforated) 'Y' piece and 4 clamps.

The whole lot were apart less than twelve months ago, so apart from needing to raise the engine/gearbox a bit, should be too fraught with horrors. (Famous last words). Why didn't I do it back then? Hmmm.
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 26 Jun 2015, 18:17

Where did you order the parts from and are they IMASAF too? Much as I like to support dedicated specialists, if the price gulf is too wide then the wallet unfortunately has the final say. (35 yoyos plus 12 delivery... luvley)

Living in RoI, I've always found DE > IRL carriage far more favourable than GB > IRL, even when the exchange rate was good. I've been buying the odd thing here and there from Germany for a number of years now and even remember (not that long ago) when their goods VAT rate was a mere 16% ! I remember ordering some sills that only weighed 4kg, but the carrier had on the sticker a volumetric weight of 31.5kg - Still only cost about €12 (2006) and was cheaper than the Royal Mail Standard Parcels rate for a domestic delivery.

Good luck with the job. Mine was fresh from the Y-piece back in 2008, so you should finish in half the time :D
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 27 Jun 2015, 08:41

From a UK based GS/A specialist I was quoted front left pipe £55; front right £65 including heat exchanger pipe (which I don't need); 'Y' piece (4 speed box) £35; set of clamps (how many?) £20, all plus carriage and VAT @ 20%. The sum total without carriage but with 20% VAT on the parts was £210. I do not know if they were stainless - probably not.
Der Franzose in Germany: The front left pipe €28.50; front right without the heat exchange pipe €29.90; 'Y' section €59.00; 4 clamps @ €2.95 each - €11.80 - all include VAT @ 19%. Shipping to GB €23.90. Total - €153.10 exactly £113.11 through PayPal. I don't know the manufacturer, but it is claimed quality product.

£210 plus carriage (and the VAT on the carriage) vs £113 including carriage from Germany. No brainer.

Quite why some traders choose to leave prices off their listings for parts is equivalent to 'price on application'. It puts people off of even phoning to find out the bad news.

PS:
Ironically, I have a 'Y' piece for a 5 speed box amongst my souvenirs - and it's stainless. But won't fit a 4 speed.
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 27 Jun 2015, 23:49

Not easy or necessarily desirable, my searches led me to the conclusion that the pipe angles and bends of the 4 and 5 speed Y-pieces are the same, it's just the location of the branch bracket which was moved. If I didn't have a 4-speed Y-piece handy enough - but a 5-speed of no other use - I'd be cutting off the branch bracing and fabricating and welding a new one further forward. (and no doubt the following day finding out that I suddenly needed a 5-speed Y-piece :D )

(OT: My GS thread may go quiet for a bit as I have the current distraction of a recently deceased Honda Jazz (n/s/f damage from TP driving out in front of me). It's an economic write-off and I've decided to retain the salvage (Cat D) and putting the front all back together. In the meantime, it's replacement (Jazz No.2) has to be collected, ferried, VRT'd, NCT'd and Motor Taxed. Replacement also has a defective CVT to fix (reverse issue), but it was cheap cheap and I'm a sucker for giving myself more work than I need to do at any given moment.)
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 07 Jul 2015, 20:15

For the record: Parts arrived today. Got held in Holland for some obscure reason, but the 'Y' piece is IMASAF, the two pipes are by Walker. Whilst I paid for one front pipe without manifold heater linking pipe (a separate item), it has arrived with that pipe, and its clamp!
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 08 Jul 2015, 04:02

Thanks for the update Derek. Always a bonus to get extra bits!
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 08 Aug 2015, 20:04

I've delayed this long enough, but due to other business have had to re-seal the existing joints; one front one side, and the Y section to the long tail pipe.

The full three front pipes are yet to be installed. But I'm seeking help from knowledge: Does fitting the front pipes need the engine lifted as well as the front undertray removed to get the squigglies through - or can it be done with just the tray removed?

Last time they were off was when the engine/gearbox was sitting on the workmate, now it's all tucked in it looks a bit 'Houdini' to me. :?
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 09 Aug 2015, 03:24

I've not been that far forward so can't really comment.

However, it may even be possible to do it without removing the undertray. Those front pipes are fairly straight? The only concern I would have is the offside front pipe. Is the lower section of hot-spot/heat exchanger/manifold heater pipe detachable from the new one? Looking at the parts book, the nearside hot-spot pipe is a single pipe between inlet manifold and exhaust manifold. The offside hot-spot pipe consists of an upper which is attached to the inlet manifold at one end and clamped in the middle to the front pipe hot-spot pipe which would appear to be one-piece with the offside front pipe - in OEM form. The aftermarket part on the other hand is split into two pieces (probably to aid fitment)

Image
Photo courtesy of Französische Klassiker Onlineshop

If you have a Citroen original style offside front pipe then only an upper hot-spot pipe is needed to complete the set up. If you have an aftermarket one with just a stub, then you will need the hot-spot link to fill the gap. It's a extra joint (and somewhere else to leak), but it surely must be less of a nightmare to fit?!?!?

I presume the bit you say earlier that "I don't need" is because you already have an aftermarket style pipe fitted and the link piece is sound?
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by Stonehopper » 09 Aug 2015, 10:16

Having taken a better look - the separate piece of pipe that came as an extra (which I had not thought I would need) is in fact needed, as it connects the short stub as shown in Daniels' image to the rest of the heat exchanger beneath the carb. The pipe as fitted has an integral section extending upward from the horizontal which connects to the pipe that goes to the manifold beneath the carb. The piece supplied by Daniel, and shown in his image, is an extra piece to easier facilitate fitting :rofl2:. It well might, but the fact that the original is integral with the horizontal will prove to be somewhat challenging to remove. I can see the engine coming out!

The Citroen workshop manuals decline from speaking of the exhaust. There are no images photographic or in drawing of the front pipes at all. The Autodata book is likewise. Only Haynes has a drawing, and an inaccurate one, of the system. They do however, have a little text which, to say the least is euphemistic: "after disconnecting the pipe clamps, the front exhaust pipes can be withdrawn as necessary." :^o

Must have been on the bench.

Time for more tea, and a lie down . . .
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Re: GS 4 speed, exhaust Y-piece

Post by macplaxton » 09 Aug 2015, 12:23

Stonehopper wrote:It well might, but the fact that the original is integral with the horizontal will prove to be somewhat challenging to remove. I can see the engine coming out!


Ah no Derek. The original is being replaced. Select your cutting implement of choice and just lop it off. :twisted:

Stonehopper wrote:The Citroen workshop manuals decline from speaking of the exhaust.


I noticed that last night, which is why I resorted to looking at the parts book.

Stonehopper wrote:Only Haynes has a drawing, and an inaccurate one :rofl2: , of the system.

As per usual
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