GSA lump in a snail van

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GSA lump in a snail van

Post by handyman » 19 Feb 2012, 12:11

Anybody any experience of putting a GSA lump and transmission in a snail van (Acadiane).

I have a friend who has come over from the dark side and bought a Citroen Acadiane van, but he finds the engine a little lacking in oomph and as he will be using it for his business, he wants it to be able to carry a load at reasonable speed. He has not mastered the peculiar 2CV driving technique yet as he even finds driving in a straight line scary. :shock: :shock:

Anyway, I have a couple of GSA engines and transmissions and we discussed the possibility of doing the engine swap. I know it has been done and would like a little information before we start cutting the van apart.

Handyman

PS Malc, expect a visit from us in the snail shortly.
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by Citroenmad » 19 Feb 2012, 22:31

Sounds like a nice idea, there are a good few 2cvs with GS engines, though I think some have needed slight modifacation to the front to make it fit.

Might be best to register on the 2cvGB club forum, probably the best source of info on this topic.

There are things which can be done to improve the performance of the standard engine though. I have seen a few modified ones capable of doing 90+. Ours is fitted with a better coil which improved its performance noticably. It also responded very well to a good service.
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by citronut » 20 Feb 2012, 19:51

you will require an AMI supper chassis as they have up rated suspension and the G lump fits straight on to it,

i have seen an Acadiane with a Lotus twin cam mid engined on a space frame chassis,

regards malcolm
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by Citroening » 20 Feb 2012, 20:17

citronut wrote:i have seen an Acadiane with a Lotus twin cam mid engined on a space frame chassis,

And the owner is a member of this forum too... :-D

I've seen pictures of it, and it does look mean! :twisted:
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by handyman » 21 Feb 2012, 00:54

Malc, you got one of them there chassis in your shed loads of bits? :lol: =D> #-o

H
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by citronut » 21 Feb 2012, 09:51

dont be silly Richard :roll: :wink:
but look at this ebay item
320839019047
regards malcolm
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by handyman » 21 Feb 2012, 10:34

Hi Malc, thats a nice price, thanks for the nod.
Could buy a whole CX for that!
How much is the chassis really worth?
I can hear the sound of the cross-channel ferry calling........ #-o

H
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by Northern_Mike » 21 Feb 2012, 11:10

handyman wrote:Anybody any experience of putting a GSA lump and transmission in a snail van (Acadiane).



Yeah, my brother had one. You need an Ami Super Chassis. It is possible with a 2cv chassis. but the engine has to be mounted at a slight angle which leads to the gearbox being at an angle and leading to issues. You can use a 2CV 'box, but it will be destroyed in short order by the extra torque. With the Ami Chassis you can use the 5-speeder too :-)

My brother also had a 2CV with a GS motor in it. We were replacing the rotten chassis on his 2CV, and had a very rotten GSA 1299 with a 5 speed box. We asked the chassis builder to extend the front end and add a crossmember. Fitted perfectly.

At the moment, he's building yet another 2CV powered by a GSA 1299 with a 5 Speed box. This one is on an Ami Super chassis..

A video taken some time ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2-s8boccJ4

The moment it sprang into life after 7 years sat doing nothing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6D42uKj ... myEflaZesC
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by citronut » 21 Feb 2012, 14:36

when i had a hand in building a G powerd dersh years ago i left the bonnet standerd and extended the bulkhead by about 3 to 4 inch's,

then cut the headlamp cross bar in two and welded an extra section of tube back in as it needs to be wider, this also gave the original wings something to fix to,

end result looked not much diferent to a standerd dersh,

i think i heard you dont need to alter a Dyane front end tin work by much at all to wedge a G lump in,

regards malcolm
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by Northern_Mike » 22 Feb 2012, 13:45

citronut wrote:when i had a hand in building a G powerd dersh years ago i left the bonnet standerd and extended the bulkhead by about 3 to 4 inch's,

then cut the headlamp cross bar in two and welded an extra section of tube back in as it needs to be wider, this also gave the original wings something to fix to,

end result looked not much diferent to a standerd dersh,

i think i heard you dont need to alter a Dyane front end tin work by much at all to wedge a G lump in,

regards malcolm


My Brother had the van with a GS motor that had standard wings and extended bonnet. For the black car in the vid, we used that as a mould and made an entire front end in one piece fibreglass, which is very light and can be lifted off to allow great access. Took a couple of goes to get right, but it's very light
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by citronut » 22 Feb 2012, 14:07

extending the skuttle/hindge section of the bulkhead keeps the nose looking standerd,

regards malcolm
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by chevrons2 » 13 Mar 2012, 14:35

I fitted an Ami Super chassis and engine in an Acadiane a few years ago. It's quite a lot of work, but when I did it I had a collapsed chassis on the Acad and happened to have a spare rolling Super chassis with engine and box, so it seemed like the obvious thing to do. There are a few things that you need to be aware of before you start.
As other people have said, the G-type engine and gearbox will fit in a Dyane/Acadiane (not the 2CV) without the need to extend the bodywork, but only if you use the shorter bell-housing and input shaft from the Ami Super. This gives enough room for the 4-speed gearbox to fit between the engine and the steering rack. There is not room for the 5-speed box. I have heard of people tilting the engine/gearbox up at the back so that a 5-speed box fits above the rack (with a hole cut in the bulk-head. This tilt can cause oil circulation/starvation problems in the engine. I have also heard of people trying to get around this by raising the engine too, so that it's level, but that's not good either: The engine is much heavier than the 2CV/Dyane engine and cornering* suffers as a result, so raising all that the weight will make this even worse. (*Cornering: even with the front and rear anti-roll bars that were standard on the Ami Super, the handling/cornering is not as predictable as the 2CV: When cornering enthusiastically, as you get to the apex of the corner, you have to turn more as the weight of the engine in front of the wheels, causes understeer). You also need to use the Ami Super engine mountings, or you can modify the GS ones. If you use standard GS ones, they foul the brake discs. The GS gearbox has a very short lever coming out of the top, so you need to make something up to extend it, to attach the lever that goes through the bulk-head. Then you need to get used to the different gear positions: 1st and 3rd are in the same place as on a 2CV/Dyane/Acadiane, 2nd and forth are where 2CVs have reverse and 2nd. So to go from first to second, (or from 3rd to 4th) you move the lever straight forward.
I would recommend that you fit the front anti-roll bar and mounting plates from an Ami 8 or Ami Super, which is simple. Don't be tempted to use the Ami steering rack, as the angle of the pinion is different. You can not use the Ami super rear anti-roll bar: The plate that the knife-edge locates in is shaped on an Acadiane, to clear the cross-member under the Acadiane rear floor. Even if you drill holes in it to mount the anti-roll bar clamping brackets, there still isn't room for the bar. You also can't use the Ami Super arms, as apart from being closer together (the track is narrower on an Ami than on other A-series), you will also find that the knife-edge plates will fowl things, are too short, and the levering angle is wrong.
The Acadiane chassis and wheel-base is longer than any other A-series, including the Ami Super: If the Acadiane has got it's original chassis, you will be able to see where it has been extended at the back: the spot welds can be drilled out and the extensions removed and fitted to the Ami Super chassis. Similarly, you will be able to see where the positions of the reinforcing bracket etc for the rear axle tube bolts differ on the two chassis: these will need removing in a similar way, and welding in securely on the Ami Super chassis.
If you use the Ami Super (not Ami 8) front bumper brackets, (that bolt to the side of the Ami Super chassis), you can mount the front panel directly to them, as there isn't room for the standard Dyane brackets, etc. This makes it easier and quicker than to dismantle the front end than on a standard Dyane.
There's no room for a bonnet catch, so I used metal clasp things on each side. There was room under the bonnet for a 2CV plastic air filter box on the right-hand side, attached to the carb with a combination of the original GS/Ami-Super rubber elbow and a short (straight) section of 2CV rubber elbow inside it. I used the Ami Super heater fan. There was still enough room for the spare wheel under the bonnet.
Once it's all done, and you've got used to the gear positions, it's great fun to drive. Using the standard Ami Super gearbox ratios, I reckon it did close to 100mph. Strangely it had a slightly higher top speed than my other car at the time: Ami Super with 1.3 GSA engine and G-Special high-4th-ratio gearbox). Both had appalling fuel consumption, but that's probably more down to me.
I sold my Acadiane about 6-7 years ago, just after the Kelso world meeting. If anyone knows where it is now, please let me know: PMT120X. It was dark green with an orange front panel. The last I heard of it, it was somewhere around Portsmouth about 4 years ago, having an exhaust and some welding for it's mot. I had used the Ami-Super exhaust kidney-box and swan-neck, (which are both difficult to find now), with a standard side topedo (which is what the Ami Super had anyway) and short (van/mehari) tailpipe.
Jeroen Cats (sadly deceased) had a really good website for more info on similar and other modifications, lists of gear ratios, etc: http://www.cats-citroen.net/
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by handyman » 18 Mar 2012, 15:53

Phew, thats a bit of chapter and verse! I'll pass it on to my friend and see if he's up for it. For me its not a problem as I have the workshop and equipment to do all that is required, and probably a bit more besides. Thanks

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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by citronut » 19 Mar 2012, 19:31

the one i had a hand in i think we used either an AMI or a G gear sift cant remember now but it was certainly a conventional floor stick,

regards malcolm
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Re: GSA lump in a snail van

Post by Spaces » 12 Sep 2012, 11:14

It makes more sense to use a BMW bike engine, there are adaptors available. I think the 65hp version is normally used, but for reliability a GS box needs to be used, which as is mentioned above causes other problems. Using the fat four makes for a very front-heavy machine which can be fun but thirsty.

A good flat twin will pull an Acadiane along at 75mph, even 80 with a tailwind. I'd stick with the original and use the handling and light-ish weight to its advantages, but for someone used to modern cars that could be a challenge.
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