Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

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Post by AbangCorp » 05 Dec 2009, 13:57

exactly

c5 sphere on xantia

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Post by myglaren » 05 Dec 2009, 14:03

Not sure how well that would work.

Initially you need to match the pressure and damping, which the C5 spheres may not do.

Then there is the question of fluid tolerance. The C5 uses LDS and the sphere membranes may well soon degrade if exposed to LHM. LDS is pretty much power steering fluid, which in turn is pretty much ATF. In some case it actually is ATF.

I think the connection threads are different too.
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Post by DickieG » 05 Dec 2009, 14:30

Late Xantia's were fitted with C5 type saucer sphere's new from the factory (but only at the rear) the thread on them is the same so they can be used provided you find a similar specification.

I have a pair of C5 saucers that I'll be trying in the not too distant future to see what difference they make.
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Post by AbangCorp » 06 Dec 2009, 02:30

correct me if im wrong

but, lds, if same as atf
it should be more damaging to rubber than lhm
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Post by CitroJim » 06 Dec 2009, 08:49

AbangCorp wrote:but, lds, if same as atf


I don't think so. LDS is a synthetic formulation and ATF is strictly mineral-based. I'd never mix them or user LDS in an LHM system. The jury is still out on the use of LDS in an LHM system so don't risk it.

ATF won't harm rubber in an LHM system but it's not a good idea to use it in place of LHM. ATF is specifically designed for automatic gearboxes and has friction modifiers designed to help brake bands grip. These friction modifiers can wear the delicate bores and shuttle valves in a Citroen Hydraulic system.

Some late genuine Citroen Xantia spheres are grey although still the spherical shape. I have a grey accumulator here...
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Post by AbangCorp » 06 Dec 2009, 13:40

theres one mechanic says brake fluid does damage to lhm system
thats for sure

i am not looking to add lds into lhm system
but using c5 sphere to lhm, that's im interested in

sure harder, but better if it longer lasting, wouldnt it
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by allanmc » 23 Nov 2011, 16:24

Jim, can you tell me where I can buy Hydraflush
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by Xaccers » 23 Nov 2011, 16:51

allanmc wrote:Jim, can you tell me where I can buy Hydraflush
allan


GSF, give them an call and order it, much easier than fighting with their website, plus if you're a CCC member (Citroen Car Club) you get 10% off.
They're a good place for replacement sphere's too.
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by allanmc » 23 Nov 2011, 17:19

Thanks again Xac
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 20 Sep 2012, 21:08

My local Citroen dealership parts guy told me that they used to send back any green spheres that were more than a year old. He seems to know what he is talking about (but his colleague doesn't). When I mentioned I was thinking of loosening the spheres every six months and then doing them back up hand tight, he said that one of the older mechanics did this on his car, and never had any problems when it came time to remove them.

Gracie helped me to find if I had any loose fillings (I don't), as her ride was diamond hard. 6 spheres and LHM change later, the 'Magic Carpet' is now in effect. The accumulator was bad (4 to 5 seconds between ticks!). Now, I have to wait for ages for a tick.

I got my spheres from Citroen Parts in London. They are Lizarte, and I have not had any problems (yet) with them. I was charged £150 including p&p.
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by ihatecars » 19 Oct 2016, 13:05

I feel my question is a bit dumb.. I was reading the helpful guide I was thinking, when do we switch the engine off?

So, up on ramps, engine running and suspension on high, you need to apply the sphere tool and "crack" each sphere off by about an eight to a quarter of a turn (i.e. just get them started). They will be tight and you may need to use your boot to get them moving. Once they are moving, put the suspension on low, and now switch off? depressurise by opening the 12mm bleed valve on the pressure regulator by no more than half a turn and go back, still ensuring the car is fully and safely supported and unscrew them fully.


I assume, once the sphere has been slackened and I think the engine needs to be running to lower the suspension height, do we then switch off the engine and open the bleed valve? I can't help but think opening a bleed valve with the engine running would just dump LHM on the floor.
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 19 Oct 2016, 13:18

You are not bleeding the system, you are de-pressurising it. Do NOT undo that bolt by more than a turn (and certainly do not fully undo it) as there is a small ball bearing used to seal the circuit, and if the bolt comes out that ball bearing will make a break for the hills!
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by CitroJim » 19 Oct 2016, 13:24

There is no such thing as a dumb question :)

Strictly there is no need to switch off before opening the bleed valve and in fact some like to do it with the engine running on Hydractive cars. Personally I've not noticed any great difference either way.

Opening the bleed valve will not spill any LHM under any circumstances as it opens an internal passage and doers not open to the outside atmosphere. In fact calling it a bleed valve is a misnomer as more correctly it is a pressure release valve.

When you open it you'll hear a rushing sound as the system depressurises and LHM rushes back to the reservoir.

So, to recap, engine running, up on high and supported but with the wheels on the ground and still taking he weight of the car, loosen the spheres a little, drop to low, open bleed valve, listen for the rushing sound and then switch off.

Continue swapping the spheres...

Never worry about asking questions ;)
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by ihatecars » 19 Oct 2016, 15:36

hmmm.. maybe I think too much (or worry too much) but...
When you open it you'll hear a rushing sound as the system depressurises and LHM rushes back to the reservoir.


doesn't that mean the suspension will drop to low position?
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Re: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 19 Oct 2016, 15:50

You would only de-pressurise the system when you are about to work on it (such as replacing the spheres). If you are going to replace the rear spheres the car will need to be properly supported so that you can get underneath safely to do the work.

Please be aware that, if a sphere has had the diaphragm rupture (it does happen) it will spray LHM quite a distance as it comes off the car. Some people have suggested a way to limit this is to have a carrier bag ready to drop the sphere in, so you don't have a wide area to clean.
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