Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Guides on how to approach the more common problems experienced by our members.
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Toby_HDi
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Post by Toby_HDi » 12 Apr 2009, 19:17

superloopy

Yes that sphere is an Antisink sphere.

The sphere is screwed into its mounting and a pipe is fed to it and the union screwed into the sphere. A picture would explain better but I do not have one unfortunately

An SX will be NON-Hydroactive

Hydropneumatic = 6 spheres
Hydroactive = 8 Spheres
Activa = 10 Spheres

I've been led to believe shelf life is not an issue with spheres. Am sure someone can confirm this or correct me, whichever is the case

Hope that helps
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Post by CitroJim » 12 Apr 2009, 19:21

Hi Simon,

I have no experience nor never heard of AMK Spheres until now but looking at their Website (follow the on-line catalogue link) S 09N are the correct ones for yours.

The S10N should be fine for yours as the only difference (as far as I can determine) is a 0.1mm difference in the damper hole. Both are 40Bar and 400cc capacity. In practice you'll be hard-pressed to feel any difference.

There's no S100N listed in the AMK catalaogue :?

All the best on the work Simon and do report back on how it goes...
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Post by coolderry » 12 Apr 2009, 19:39

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly CitroJim!!

Looking at their website too, my one is a 1.8i 16V, therefore it must be a 95 onwards which would mean i need the S16N?

Both the S16N and the S10N are 400ml capacity, but the pressures are shown as S10N = 40 and the S16N = 30?

What would be significantly different with these pressures if i inadvertently fit the S10N where they should be S16N?

I shall get the motor factors to get the correct ones, as listed in there reference guide.


Once again thanks for the info.

Cheers,

Simon
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Post by CitroJim » 12 Apr 2009, 20:00

The higher the pressure (bizarrely maybe) the softer the ride Simon so if you fancy a more comfy but wallowy ride, go for the 40 Bar spheres!

30 bar spheres will give a slightly harder/tighter ride and handling. Useful if you regularly carry heavy loads too.

It can be fun to play around with spheres intended for other applications as some rather surprising results can be obtained. Be careful though and never go silly and exchange fronts for rears or try using an accumulator on a suspension corner as that will give very undesirable and dangerous results. The same applies to using hydractive spheres on a non-hydractive car.
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Post by addo » 12 Apr 2009, 21:58

Seriously, if the centre sphere on an Hydractive setup is switched "out of the circuit" then the car is essentially riding on its corner spheres - which is what you'd be doing if Hydractive ones were put on a non H-II car.

I'm not sure it's dangerous; just a firm ride.

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by CitroJim » 12 Apr 2009, 22:05

addo wrote:I'm not sure it's dangerous; just a firm ride.


It is, the damping goes all to pot Adam. Remember the hydractive setup has big-bore pipes from the suspension cylinders to the hydractive block. Within the hydractive block are further dampers.

The effect of running hydractive spheres on the rear of a non-hydractive car is hilarious. It is so under damped that you can push the rear up and down down practically with your little finger.
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Post by addo » 12 Apr 2009, 22:07

Oh. I thought the extra damping lay between the solenoid and the centre sphere, leaving just incompressible fluid in the connector pipes.
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Post by Deanxm » 12 Apr 2009, 23:03

Has there been some missunderstanding?
A hydractive sphere has no dampers in it (and in the case of the front one 50cc bigger) and as such almost nil damping, to put that in place of strut spheres on any cit would give you a boat, totaly undriveable. If you put hydractive strut spheres on a non hydractive car it would just give a massivly overdamped ride because hydractive strut spheres have very small damper holes, usually under 1mm think, and the car could then be lowered with the height correctors to give a lower firmer ride........................and probably a bent bonnet :wink:

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Post by Xaccers » 19 Apr 2009, 23:07

CitroJim wrote:
addo wrote:I'm not sure it's dangerous; just a firm ride.


It is, the damping goes all to pot Adam. Remember the hydractive setup has big-bore pipes from the suspension cylinders to the hydractive block. Within the hydractive block are further dampers.

The effect of running hydractive spheres on the rear of a non-hydractive car is hilarious. It is so under damped that you can push the rear up and down down practically with your little finger.


Indeed, when I first had Cassy she had hydractive spheres on the rear, you could push her all the way down, and she'd stay there until the hight corrector kicked in.
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Flabbergasted

Post by rpaco » 30 Jun 2009, 11:52

I have just driven back12 miles from Boston after visiting my Citroen dealer (Taylors) to get the 4.5mm pipe seal for the anti-sink Sphere on my Xantia - minus the seal.

I was actually shopping in Boston and called in to pick one up, but to my amazement the young man behind the parts desk/counter had never heard of them. So we tried to look them up on the system but they are not listed as a generic part. Then we looked at the Xantia schematics of the hydraulic system and found the exact location but the seal is not only not listed it is not mentioned or shown at all. (somewhat critical error)

Since this 4.5mm seal must be used in several places all over the vehicle I had assumed it would be a common part encompassed within common knowledge. Not so it seems! I returned to the dealer half an hour later having left the young man supposedly searching. But to no avail.
I was going to suggest he asked the mechanics but then realised they had probably got sick of being asked do did not suggest it.

So please does anyone have the Citroen part Nr or the GSF.
Also someone mentioned the "Service site" can they furnish the address please. Or other site listing CIT part numbers.

Incidentally I got the spheres from AEPdirect.com who are a lot cheaper than GSF and claim genuine parts. Also they check they are correct for your car if you input the reg Nr. Free next day delivery too. Total was £122.15 inc VAT.

Meanwhile I shall have to email an old customer of mine in Bath Road who just happens to be the Citroen UK parts manager, (if he is still there, it's 7 years since I retired) and suggest they check the other schematics to see if the seals are shown.

Thanks to all above in the thread, I have now done the four corners, (amazing difference, magic carpet is back) the accumulator and the anti-sink are soaking in Penol. (plus gas equivalent but much better, not widely distributed but from my neighbour who used to break tractors and still dabbles in parts. Thanks also to him I made a chain wrench to undo the spheres from some old scrap heavy tractor chain and a bit of child's swing frame 1" thick wall steel pipe, highly sophisticated tool)
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Post by CitroJim » 30 Jun 2009, 12:51

Just goes to show how long the hydraulic Citroens have been out of production now butt hat's still not good form from a dealer..

GSF do he seals as follows:

N65996 PIPE SEAL LHM TYPE 3.5MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM 0.65

N65998 PIPE SEAL 4.5MM LHM TYPE 4.5MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM

N65999 PIPE SEAL 6.35MM LHM 6.35MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM

Best to buy a stock of them when you order them...
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Post by Xaccers » 30 Jun 2009, 13:28

The local dealer to us (before they vanished overnight) could only find the seals as part of a pipe section, so for me they've always been gsf parts.
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Post by rpaco » 30 Jun 2009, 13:44

CitroJim wrote:Just goes to show how long the hydraulic Citroens have been out of production now butt hat's still not good form from a dealer..

GSF do he seals as follows:

N65996 PIPE SEAL LHM TYPE 3.5MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM 0.65

N65998 PIPE SEAL 4.5MM LHM TYPE 4.5MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM

N65999 PIPE SEAL 6.35MM LHM 6.35MM PIPE SEAL BX;XM;XANTIA;CX;GSA LHM

Best to buy a stock of them when you order them...


Many thanks guys, will order a handfull from GSF.
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Post by demag » 01 Jul 2009, 12:02

Tell me I'm an idiot but doesn't the anti sink have a "normal" type pipe fitting? You know the swaged flange type. That might be why there is no seal shown for it. Someone like Pleaides might be able to confirm that.
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Post by CitroJim » 01 Jul 2009, 12:59

Hi Demag :D

The Anti-Sink has a normal Citroen flare joint with the typical rubber sleeve seal. Exactly the same as you see all ovetr the place on these cars.
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