Hi Folks

A forum for new members to introduce themselves to the rabble already onboard. Not compulsory!
Tell us a little about yourself, lie if you have to but keep it to just an introduction, not a car discussion.

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electrokid
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Hi Folks

Post by electrokid » 09 Feb 2013, 21:56

Just a quick intro :-D

I'm thinking about the possibility of the next car being a C5 estate - probably around 2005 vintage so I'll be keeping an eye here on what goes wrong with them - and what goes right - generally getting to know them hopefully to apply a little wisdom to the purchase and ownership.

I'm a retired electronics engineer but I still have a reasonably well equipped lab at home. My Granada is my 6th one and the BX is my 3rd. I've been a reasonably active member of BXClub for a while and I'm also a member of the Granada Drivers Guild. Other forums - vinylengine, QuadraphonicQuad where I occasionally visit and I've just joined PicBasic.
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Brian.


1992 Citroën BX19 TGD estate Venetian Red 216K
1984 Ford Granada MK2 estate Diamond White 103K

citronut
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by citronut » 09 Feb 2013, 23:21

hi Brian and welcome over here

look at the link below

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43290
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Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
purple and lilac metalic 2CV(VIOLET)registered to her in doors
1972 DS special been layed up aprox 31 years

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CitroJim
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by CitroJim » 10 Feb 2013, 07:00

Welcome Brian :-D Good to see you over this side of the fence...

Don't get a C5, go for a Xantia :wink:
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Jim

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oneday
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by oneday » 10 Feb 2013, 10:44

nothing wrong with a c5 welcome brian
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C5 2.0 HDI VTR 2003 ICELANDIC GREY
306 1.4 LX MERIDIAN

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blackbeard
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by blackbeard » 11 Feb 2013, 01:33

Hi Brian. If you go for a C5 you will eventually need all your electrical experience. There is a wire and sensor attached to just about everything - there are even sensors to check that sensors are working.

I have had a petrol automatic C5 for 3 years. Mechanically they are straightforward enough, but electrically they are a potential financial time bomb. Had I not had some basic understanding of the complexity (and workrounds) of these cars I would have been down at least double the £2000 I have already spent keeping my C5 running. Just one more failure, and I mean just one, and I will do the best Basil Faulty impression on that car ever seen this side of Manchester!

Seriously though, when it runs it runs well, but I would not risk buying another unless I knew the previous owner, knew its history, and it was very, very cheap.
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Current French machine:
2002 Citroen C5 2.0 16v Automatic (petrol)

Previous French machines (all auction finds):
2000 Citroen Xantia 1.8 16v (petrol)
1999 Peugeot 206 'Roland-Garos'
1998 Renault Laguna 1.8 8v (petrol)
1992 Renault 21 2.0 8v (petrol saloon)

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electrokid
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by electrokid » 19 Feb 2013, 12:24

Hi again - and thanks for the welcomes :-D

Thanks for the link Malcolm - I'm kinda thinking about the 2004 model - 6 speed gearbox I believe.

I do like enthusiasm Jim :-D and I still remember much of your comprehensive description of the Activa suspension system even though I was more than halfway through my bottle of Kourtaki :lol: and I remain impressed by the way it works. I've never had any handling problems with the normal hydraulic suspension in the BX though, even though some folks 'on the other side' have spoken about understeer I've never ever had a BX 'let go' (that's one of the things the Granada does well in the wet :twisted: ) so maybe I've calmed down at last - or maybe running on either Michelin or Vredestein tyres has something to do with it.

Thanks for your encouragement oneday :-D

Just one more failure, and I mean just one, and I will do the best Basil Faulty impression on that car ever seen this side of Manchester!


The way the legal system in this country is going we'll soon need a licence to bash a car with a tree branch :lol: I did read somewhere that the C5 has 39 microprocessors dotted about - sounds to me like the sort of engineering where they've put a micro in where a nut and bolt would have sufficed. Good to hear that there are 'workarounds' though I do associate that word with "unnecessary sodding about". I do agree with you re service history - I have full SH on both my on-the-road cars - the BX folder weighs about 2Kg and the Granada's is in 4 box files :shock: but at least when something needs doing I can check when it was last tinkered with.

you will eventually need all your electrical experience


That's a bit ominous - it's about 50 years worth :lol:
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Brian.


1992 Citroën BX19 TGD estate Venetian Red 216K
1984 Ford Granada MK2 estate Diamond White 103K

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Citroenmad
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by Citroenmad » 19 Feb 2013, 20:58

Welcome to the FCF :)

There is a break in C5 between 2004 when the faclifted C5II was launched, this had two new diesel engines (1.6HDi and 2.0HDi 138bhp - very good!). So im unsure if the 6 speed 2004 model you are talking about is a C5I or C5II and either 2.0HDi 138 or 2.2Hi 136. The 2.2 seems to have the most problems of the lot and so far I have avoided ownership of those, I found my 2.0HDi 138 superb, good economy and torque from a refined diesel engine.

Do check the dual mass flywheel is not making awful noises and the clutch is not slipping during peak torque. Every C5 diesel has a DMF and they are known to fail. I replaced mine at 25,000 miles, despite the clutch plate being like new (replaced anyway) but our other 2.0HDi 138 C5 is making horrible noises from the clutch now at 97,000 miles. Its not a cheap job.

Check all of the electrics, check for odd things like the indicators flashing a few times before they stop and the headlihts come on. This is a problem with the comms2000 unit.

If your going for anything other than the earlier 2.0HDi 110 8v (brilliant engine) then they all have diesel particulate filters. Not often a problem really but they dont like the car doing constant town use. They will eventually need the fluid topping up and the DPF filter replacing/cleaning, its expensive to replace it. This is why I have avoided the 2.2 as it was one of the first diesel engines to have a DPF and the 1.6 and 2.0HDi 138s are more refined in that area.

If its a 1.6 you stumble upon make sure it has been serviced every 10-12K miles at most and with the correct low sulphur oil - hard to tell I know. If left for long periods this can bring on turbo failure with this engine.

Suspension is a strong point on the C5s, it should ride softly-ish but not bouncy - if its bouncy the spheres are getting on a bit. Rattling will be front drops links - quite common.

Rear brake claipers can wedge out due to corrosion and wear the pads badly and odly, in extreme cases with C5s with small wheels the caliper meets the inside of the wheel rim. Also front calipers can have sticky handbrake arms, not always obvious to spot until a very noticeable wheel wobble develops and you cant see for smoke :lol:

Despite this I think of C5s as good and reliable cars which are stupidly good value for money too. When you look around at most more modern cars everything has a list as long as your arm of potential failures. We have had 5 C5s and I've covered just about ever common fault now, bar the DPF.

Find a good one which has been looked after and it should prove to be a reliable car. Our current two are 2002 C5 2.0HDi 110 SX hatch with 150K miles and a 2005 2.0HDi 138 VTR estate with 97K miles. Neither have been problematic to own for the last 3-4 years.

Good luck with your search :)
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Chris
16 C4 Cactus BlueHDi Flair
05 C4 2.0 16v Exclusive
54 Audi A2 FSi SE
51 VW Passat V6 TDi Estate

Family Citroens:
64 C4 Cactus BlueHDi Feel Red
15 C3 Picasso 1.6HDi Exclusive
56 C5 2.0HDi 138 16v VTR Estate
95 C15 6-wheel
55 Traction 6H

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electrokid
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by electrokid » 20 Feb 2013, 23:39

Thanks for the comprehensive post - much appreciated Chris.

My local independent Citroën specialist has indeed recommended the 2.0HDi / 110bhp engine - whether there's a C5 with that engine and the 6sp gearbox I'm not sure - I'm not yet familiar with the different models. Thanks for the warning re the DMF - a friend of mine, who is the opposite of me with respect to cars in that he looks for a newer car when his current drive gets to 4 years old, had a Volvo with less than 30K on the clock which suffered from DMF failure and the repair cost him over £1700. I was sympathetic of course - probably mentioned that I could buy several BXs for that money :lol:

Indicators flashing when they shouldn't is, in my opinion, a very serious problem - I'll keep an eye out for that sort of symptom. As it happens I've recently designed LED driver circuitry for flashing indicators - might come in handy :lol:

I've had bouncy suspension on the BX - I figure that replacing the spheres is something to do as a matter of course if there are any doubts - not that expensive. Thanks for the heads-up re calipers etc - I've had to replace the fronts on the BX but the rears have not been touched in the 7 years of my ownership.

As you say - a lot of car for the money, and fortunately it's not an urgent requirement so I'll take my time and try to find one that has been cared for.
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Brian.


1992 Citroën BX19 TGD estate Venetian Red 216K
1984 Ford Granada MK2 estate Diamond White 103K

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Welshy_Pete
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by Welshy_Pete » 24 Feb 2013, 22:42

Hello welcome to the french car forum.
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uhn113x
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by uhn113x » 25 Feb 2013, 10:36

electrokid wrote:... sounds to me like the sort of engineering where they've put a micro in where a nut and bolt would have sufficed.


That's because they are cheaper than nuts 'n' bolts and have eat-by dates; latter is essential to keep the factories running. :shock:

You can make a nut or bolt in a few minutes but you would need to buy an IC factory to make an IC.

I'll stick with non-electronic cars, despite I also have half a century of working with the subject!
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Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
82 Dyane

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CitroJim
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by CitroJim » 25 Feb 2013, 18:41

uhn113x wrote:I also have half a century of working with the subject!


I'm racking up nigh-on 40 years in the subject Mike and I still retain a slight distrust of in car electronics - says he with an XM and Xantia with electronic gearboxes - but in reality car electronics from the '90s is pretty well reliable by and large.

We should be thankful perhaps that car electronics doesn't use valves but then again if they did I'm sure we both would have no problems repairing them at all...

Imagine a quad or sextet of EL34s or KT66s firing the injectors or doing gear selection in an automatic gearbox. Hmmm.... Nice!
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Jim

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electrokid
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by electrokid » 27 Feb 2013, 14:00

Diolch yn fawr Pete :-)

(My nearest living relatives are in Porthcawl and my mother was a Griffiths :) but the above and "nos da" is probably the limit of my Welsh)

That's because they are cheaper than nuts 'n' bolts


Actually that IS becoming true ! :shock:

I'll stick with non-electronic cars, despite I also have half a century of working with the subject!


That's a sentiment I entirely agree with Mike - getting something that ticks all my other boxes as well - now that's the problem.

Imagine a quad or sextet of EL34s or KT66s firing the injectors or doing gear selection in an automatic gearbox. Hmmm.... Nice!


I do like that idea :lol: and I do have an unopened box of 6 EMI KT88s :shock:

Early automatic headlamp dipping on some US models actually relied on photomultiplier tubes :shock:
0x
Brian.


1992 Citroën BX19 TGD estate Venetian Red 216K
1984 Ford Granada MK2 estate Diamond White 103K

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CitroJim
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by CitroJim » 27 Feb 2013, 18:18

electrokid wrote: I do have an unopened box of 6 EMI KT88s :shock: :


You sir are a very rich man! I've watched some genuine NOS GEC ones go on ebay for positively eye-watering money :twisted:

There is an (urban) legend that the more rugged version of the 6L6, the 5881, was developed for prop pitch control in B something or another bombers. How true that is I've never been able to substantiate..
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Jim

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mds141
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by mds141 » 27 Feb 2013, 18:49

Welcome to the enlightened forum Brian. As I've mentioned on BXClub 'XM Estate'. Only car you'll ever need. :-)
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Mark Smith.

1989 Citroen BX Gti 16 valve.
2000 Citroen XM VSX 2.1 TD.

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electrokid
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Re: Hi Folks

Post by electrokid » 28 Feb 2013, 11:12

Thanks Mark :) XM is certainly capable of ticking the "younger" box - and size is about right too.

You sir are a very rich man! I've watched some genuine NOS GEC ones go on ebay for positively eye-watering money


Well that depends... I'd like to build 4 monoblocks stealing the best ideas from Williamson, Radford, and Morgan Jones in which case I'll have to buy another pair :evil: I also have "left over from the 1960s" 4 off Radiospares "de-luxe" 30W output transformers and 10 off Stentorian HF1012 speakers all of which, like the NOS KT88s are capable of selling for well into 3 figures on eBay :shock: Currently though my home entertainment seems to be going backwards - last week the livingroom TV fizzed and died with that wonderfull fried telly smell we all know and love, and a line output amp on one of the Technics power amps went low gain leaving rear / right channel somewhat down in volume - and I don't have time to look at it at the mo - when the nasty chemicals arrive this afternoon I shall be moving furniture and dealing with a small outbreak of carpet moth... Grrrr :roll: such is life :lol:
0x
Brian.


1992 Citroën BX19 TGD estate Venetian Red 216K
1984 Ford Granada MK2 estate Diamond White 103K