Speed limit tolerance

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Stevie Callaghan
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Nov 2003, 14:36

Speed limit tolerance

Post by Stevie Callaghan » 09 Dec 2003, 01:06

According to the ACPO the tolerance for speeding is 10% plus 2mph. I.E you CANNOT get nicked for doing 35mph in a 30mph zone, you'll have to be doing at least 36mph, 47mph, 58mph, 69mph and 80mph. This is FACT and if you have been nicked for anything less then you should get a lawyer to sort it.

allmond
Posts: 214
Joined: 28 Feb 2001, 02:02

Post by allmond » 09 Dec 2003, 01:49

NO!! They are GUIDELINES from ACPO to police officers in England and Wales. They are not a tolerance on the speed limit. 31 in a 30 is speeding. In theory, there is no basis in law as to why you could not be prosecuted. You may have a complaint against Police, but IN THEORY, you could still get done.
Jamie

Stevie Callaghan
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Nov 2003, 14:36

Post by Stevie Callaghan » 10 Dec 2003, 02:02

Sorry i did not mean the limit itself. Your right, 31mph in a 30 zone is illegal, but they allow this tolerance (amongst other things) for differentials in speedometers, which can vary in accuracy enormously from vehicle to vehicle. I see 100's of speeding tickets everyday and none of them are below (in fact all well above) these guidelines. But again the safest way to not get a ticket is don't speed.

Homer
Posts: 1441
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 10 Dec 2003, 03:18

They allow this tolerance to save themselves a boatload of paperwork, end of story.
You <b>can</b> be prosecuted for 1mph over the speed limit but it is very unlikely.
Speedometers are allowed to read 10% <b>over</b> but are <b>not</b> allowed to <b>under read</b>. Some speedometers do over read, this could be down to incorrect aftermarket tyres or incorrect tyre pressures. Speedometer accuracy almost never gets checked though.
If you do get a ticket for less than +10%+2 and it was from a camera/laser then you may be able to argue against it on the grounds that the equipment was not being operated within ACPO guidelines. Good luck if you do. Don't forget they will threaten you with the possibility of a £1000 fine, costs and extra points if you want to take up your right to a day in court.
Out of interest, why do you see 100s of speeding tickets every day?

ghostrider
Posts: 360
Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 02:10

Post by ghostrider » 10 Dec 2003, 05:36

Scary stuff this for us owners of ageing BXs, the speedo on my current Bx is not too bad but my 17TD on used to tick like crazy, fluctuating around 5mph at 30, despite replacing thew whole cable and being very careful in its routing, I suspect that the damping spring was knacked.
One other small point is the fact that with the gap between the needle and the display being what it is, parallax errors would make a nonsense of trying to read your speedo accurately.
One idea to fix all these problems may be to have an F1 style speed limiter that you could engage as you came into a 30 limit, perhaps some sort of mod to the present style of cruise control?
What ever your views on the rights and wrongs of the speed issue, at the moment there is a belief that speeding has to be stopped and anything that could help us avoid getting tickets has to be the way to go.
One other thing is that although speed kills, if they go for hidden cameras as has been suggested recently, I suspect there will be an increase in the number os accidents caused by drivers paying more attention to their speedos than where they are going. Would that be a defence? "sorry m'lud I was watching my speedo when the car in front did an emergency stop to avoid the dog, cat, small child etc etc"
________
CHILD HEALTH FORUMS
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 06:45, edited 1 time in total.

DoubleChevron
Posts: 622
Joined: 22 Sep 2003, 18:06

Post by DoubleChevron » 10 Dec 2003, 10:00

Guys,
you have nothing to complain about. Here in Victoria, Australia we have litterly 100's (or should I say thousands) of '$aftey' cameras. They are ALL hidden... Not one of them is marked, they are ALWAYS parked at the bottom of hills and gentle gradients. The best bit ?? For our $afety, last year they bought in a 3km/h tolerance. So if your doing 53km/h if a 50km/h zone you'll be booked. If you doing 113 on a freeway with the speed limit of 110km/h you'll be booked (for your $afety of course). That's right, you will get booked for doing 1.6mph over the speed limit at 110km/h. Does anyone here think there capable of not at any stage, especialy down slight gradients think they can control there speed at 110km/h that well?? Even cruise control units can't. They'd need to be hooked into the braking circuit in order to do so !![:(!] [:(!] [:(!]
Of course, this is entirely for our $afety $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
seeya,
Shane L.

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 10 Dec 2003, 11:25

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ghostrider</i>

anything that could help us avoid getting tickets has to be the way to go.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Read the stuff on www.abd.org.uk and www.safespeed.org.uk then write to your MP.
Get all your friends and family to write as well.
Nothing makes them sit up and take notice like the idea they might lose a few votes.[^]

oilyspanner
Posts: 1246
Joined: 26 Oct 2003, 17:08

Post by oilyspanner » 11 Dec 2003, 01:18

Frosty and very dark this morning, the usual unlit vehicles driving along looking through a letterbox sized piece of windscreen, still its good to know that as long as no one exceeded the speed limits we were all completely safe! moving traffic violations no longer exist, just out to get some blue illuminated washer jets and sidelight bulbs!
stewart

arry_b
Posts: 519
Joined: 10 Dec 2002, 16:55

Post by arry_b » 15 Dec 2003, 03:28

I hired a Mercedes A class and set the speed limiter at 30 when I was in a restricted area. At 30, the engine powers back so you can't exceed the limit.
Absolutely hateful, everything on the road is passing you, lorries almost crush you. It takes away any enjoyment you may otherwise get from driving.
No, the F1 style speed limiter isn't the answer unless everything on the road has them and you look upon driving as just a method of getting from A to B.

alan s
RIP 2010
Posts: 2542
Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 16:53

Post by alan s » 15 Dec 2003, 04:31

Leaning on MPs is your only chance.
We've got elections coming up next year & I am constantly in the paper highlighting all this kind of "zero tolerance" crap and writing to the local member to advise him that any move towards it here will mean the electorate will show "zero tolerance" towards the sitting member on election day.
As soon as the election date is posted & nominations in, I intend sending all candidates a questionaire regarding their attitude towards the motoring public & fixed speed cameras and publishing the results in the paper along with a list of recommended candidates on a "Recommended 1 - 10 basis."
As my area has a reputation of voting Independents in & party hacks out, I reckon the incumbent is skating on thin ice & if he doesn't respond, I think it's only fair to describe his actions as arrogant, unable to make a decision & typical of someone not prepared to stand up for his constituents. Any politician who backs this kind of draconian legislation doesn't deserve to be in office anyway.
Alan S

Homer
Posts: 1441
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 17 Dec 2003, 14:07

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by arry_b</i>

No, the F1 style speed limiter isn't the answer unless everything on the road has them and you look upon driving as just a method of getting from A to B.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Leeds University had road trials of a GPS based 'intelligent' speed limiter. Their report is available on the internet if anyone is interested I'll posta link.
A couple of their findings though:
Given a system which could be switched off, drivers would only switch it on when there was no chance of exceeding the posted limit.
When the driver couldn't switch the system off they tended to drive more dangerously, tailgating and taking chances at junctions.
And they decided it would be <b>too dangerous</b> to enforce one particular speed limit.

gjb02
Posts: 287
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:37

Post by gjb02 » 17 Dec 2003, 16:27

I have a built in speed limiter...it's called my conscience!! It normally kicks in when driving past schools, behind Hearses, going past speed cameras, when there's a police car, oh and most importantly when the signs tell me what the speed limit is.
I must agree that I have been that bloke doing 30 in a 30, normally past a group of kids playing football, holding up a line of traffic. But once the sign is a black on white.....gone![}:)] Strange all the people who seemed in such a hurry tail-gateing each other, and me, seem to disappear in my rear view.
Kids and animals are unpredictable..know when to drive slow you muppets!! I'll drive at 100mph plus when the mood takes me..but not on a foggy motorway or during heavy rain, or past a school!
I drive past a couple of schools on my route to work, and the people tail-gateing me ?? Mums with kids in the car [:(!]!! They'd be the first shrieking banshee I'd have in my ear if I knocked over a kid, yet they're quite willing to speed past a school..hypocrites the lot of them.
Still it's a free world, or is it??[:0]

Homer
Posts: 1441
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 18 Dec 2003, 14:56

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gjb02</i>

oh and most importantly when the signs tell me what the speed limit is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<b>Wrong answer</b> often speed limits are set with no regard to safety. I can give you several examples of both rediculously high and rediculously low speed limits. Yes, they can act as a guidline, warning of unseen hazards but they are by no means the most important.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I must agree that I have been that bloke doing 30 in a 30, normally past a group of kids playing football,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This is the big problem with the current obsession with speed limits. It gives the impression that as long as you are doing that speed then you are driving safely. In some cases 20mph would be much better idea past a group of kids playing football. Not something you can set speed limits for, the only answer is decent driver education.
Sorry, it's a bit of a pet issue (no I don't have a current speeding conviction).

ghostrider
Posts: 360
Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 02:10

Post by ghostrider » 27 Dec 2003, 19:27

Homer is dead right on this, the limits are only a guide, driving according to the conditions is the whole point I would say.
The limits are there for the people who don't have the ability to spot a hazard and drive accordingly, as several others have said.For instance, driving past a school at 3.30pm at 30 is just plain dangerous, but at 2am on a Sunday morning?
Cameras make no allowance for this, and that is the fundamental flaw in the social resposibility argument when it is compared to drink driving. If you are drunk then you are never in control no matter what time of day, speed is only dangerous in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like so many of our laws the whole speeding thing is targetted at those whose driving abilities have not improved since they passed their test and so we all have to live with the consequences of trying to regulate these morons.
But just like Road tax, MOTs, Third party insurance etc the people who totally disregard the rules are the very ones that the system is least able to cope with. They will continue to kill people with inappropriate speed no matter what happens, meanwhile the rest of us will continue to get caught and pay our fines like the good little boys and girls we are ;-)))
Pete

________
Norwood Assembly
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 06:45, edited 1 time in total.

Homer
Posts: 1441
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 28 Dec 2003, 02:30

Something I found out yesterday. If you are prosecuted for drunk driving and you can prove you had no alternative but to drive at the time then the courts can find you not guilty.
If you are charged with speeding you can not offer any kind of defence, even if you are being chased by armed gangsters intent on taking your life, that is no excuse (in the eyes of the law) for breaking the limit.
And if S172 is upheld then you don't even have a right to silence.
Surely that can't be right.