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Homer
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Post by Homer » 30 Nov 2003, 15:51

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Burns</i>

I can't understand all the bitching about these things and how they are only there to create revenue for this or that, at the end of the day they are in a speed restricted zone, that zone has restrictions for a good reason, speed kills, all the motorist has to do is observe the speed limit and there is no problem.
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This is absolutely not true.
The national speed limits in the UK were set completely arbitarily. The 70mph limit on motorways was originally an experiment to see if it reduced casualties <b>it did not</b>. During the fuel crisis of the 70's the limit on all roads was set at 50mph then gradually raised in 10mph increments but stuck at the current 60 and 70 for political reasons. As a result they have become targets instead of guidelines.
The very dangerous mesage which speed cameras give out is that as long as you are driving below the speed limit you are driving safely, regardless of conditions. Now we have the quite rediculous mobile phone legislation so you are safe driving at 70mph in fog using a hands-free mobile.[:(!]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Burns</i>

Well being from the UK I'm only concerned how these things are implemented and used here, I haven't seen any writings where their presence has not caused a reduction in personal injury or death, and certainly have not seen any claiming a rise in same because of their presence.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So you have not visited www.abd.org.uk or www.safespeed.org.uk - both sites have the data to show how the speed camera operators fiddle the figures.
It works like this. Pick a road, any road, say it has an average of 2 accidents a year where someone needs hospital treatment (the definition of Killed or Seriously Injured - KSI). One year it has 3 such accidents. The camera partnership sticks up a camera and the next year the road has 2 accidents and they claim a 33% reduction. Rinse and repeat. You could achieve the same effect planting daffodils.
The fact is, in the UK, the counties with no speed cameras have shown a bigger fall in KSIs than those who have pursued the camera route most heavily.
And who stands to benefit most from the fines?
Well the government stands to rake in £40million this year, which is peanuts to them really. The big winners are the private companies runing the cameras, who would be out of business if the truth got out. And who produces all the official figures, you guessed it, the camera operators.[:0]

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52
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Post by Homer » 30 Nov 2003, 15:53

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gjb02</i>

There is now a massive stretch of the M4 Motorway that uses mean (average)speed measurement devices.
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No.
<font color="red"><font size="6">There are no SPECS cameras on the M4!</font id="size6"></font id="red">
It is an email rumour, an urban myth, a load of cobblers.

Sl4yer
Posts: 847
Joined: 12 Apr 2003, 04:29

Post by Sl4yer » 30 Nov 2003, 17:13

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<font color="red"><font size="6">There are no SPECS cameras on the M4!</font id="size6"></font id="red">
It is an email rumour, an urban myth, a load of cobblers.
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Absolutely. See this: http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/ms4/08.htm

mark_sp
Posts: 230
Joined: 13 Apr 2003, 00:47

Post by mark_sp » 30 Nov 2003, 18:11

Okay
Seem to have touched a nerve with this one and its deviated from my original posting which was basically questioning how the things work.
I have to say that speed is probably only one (important)factor when it comes to the cause of 'accidents', inappropriate speed that is and that includes travelling too slowly as well as too fast.
I'm not going to get into the other factors and complexities except to say that I think I'm correct in saying that it is the execution of the system that is the problem. I don't think anyone could object to a camera presence by a school for example. But the reality is that most known black spots are still camera free but there are a proliferation of cameras at easy target sites:
example, the stretch of A34 that runs from Talke down past Stafford, a dual carriage way that has had its speed limit relatively recently reduced and has a camera about every 2 miles on stretches of road that are good quality and not bordered by built up areas.
The other main issue is that Police are now reliant on the cameras and there is a noticable reduction in actual patrols which has lead to a massive increase in untaxed and unroadworthy vehicles driven by uninsured and even unlicensed drivers going undetected.
Mark

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52
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Post by Homer » 30 Nov 2003, 22:05

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mark_sp</i>

travelling too slowly as well as too fast.
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And too fast for conditions but within the speed limit.[^]

gjb02
Posts: 287
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:37

Post by gjb02 » 02 Dec 2003, 15:59

The information on SPECS cameras on the M4 was given to me by my works Motor Transport section, I work for the MOD !! Enough said!! If it's bull, it's bull. If not ????

Jon

Post by Jon » 03 Dec 2003, 03:21

Lets hope there are no Specs cameras on the M4 near between Newbury and Membury.
I do Swindon-London and back every day!!! ............................

humpy
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jul 2002, 19:50

Post by humpy » 03 Dec 2003, 04:54

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gjb02</i>

There is now a massive stretch of the M4 Motorway that uses mean (average)speed measurement devices. These clever little things are mounted in signs and take note of every vehicle registration, and the time it passes. Further on another device will do the same and work out your average speed to complete that distance, it will then do it again and again, until there are no more sensors. So you can theoretically be done for speeding 4 or 5 times in one journey. No more slowing down just before the cameras[:(!] It knows you were doing 110mph for 90% of your distance, and 70mph past the camera. It's somewhere around the Membury services in both directions.
So watch out, they don't flash, they work day or night and deadly accurate.
Big Tonys' Goverment of sycophants are watching you!!
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Sorry, this is not true.
I know that there was an e-mail flying arounbd that warned of SPECS cameras above the new signs on this stretch of the M4, however if you visit the Thames Valley Police website you will find that they totally deny any presence of these cameras at this location.
Also, driving down the M4 the cameras you are talking about bare absolutley no resemblance to SPECS cameras either.

humpy
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jul 2002, 19:50

Post by humpy » 03 Dec 2003, 04:55

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gjb02</i>

The information on SPECS cameras on the M4 was given to me by my works Motor Transport section, I work for the MOD !! Enough said!! If it's bull, it's bull. If not ????
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You work for the MOD.... then it's definitely BULL

Richard Gallagher
Posts: 803
Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 03:36

Post by Richard Gallagher » 03 Dec 2003, 05:16

A tip to work out if you have a 'Notice of Intended Prosecution' on the way having had the camera flash at you, is to return and look at the backplate of the camera where you will see two grey, round blanking plates if there is NO film in the box, or two brass studs/nuts if there is.
Its when you look for this tell tale sign that you realise that there are very few of them actually active.

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52
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Post by Homer » 03 Dec 2003, 14:12

See this page on the highways agency website denying the SPECS rumour.
There is a similar rumour about the M6, also false.
The ABD believe one of the anti-car groups (Transport 2000, Brake, New Labour[:o)]) deliberately started the rumours. [:(!]