LPG OR DIESEL?

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AndyGimpy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002, 18:05

LPG OR DIESEL?

Post by AndyGimpy » 15 Aug 2003, 17:40

As my Zx is now getting high in mileage I really think I need to start thinking about my next car. But the question is DO I go for the Diesel or stay with a petrol and have a LPG conversion done. As a regular visitor to Holland for Food parcels for the good lady in doors. A great number of cars over there run on LPG, its cheap and they all say its very good. I spoke to a friend who has a driving school and assumed he had been using LPG, he saids there is no benefit for him as his work is all small stop start work and LPG only comes into its own on long journeys. Now I know the Citroen/Peugeot are famous for very good diesel engines, but how do they stand up to the LPG on ther production models that run on it or as a conversion. The more input the better because this seems to be an open field.

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 16 Aug 2003, 02:17

We have a dual fuel (has both LPG and petrol tanks) Astra at work and it is noticably more rough and has less power when running on LPG.
I'm not the only one to notice and some of the people I work with don't notice a flat tyre until it comes off the rim.
I don't know if that's the norm or there is something wrong with it. Or if the other engines are affected the same.
If I had the choice I would run it on petrol all the time since I'm not paying the bills but our fleet manager is a bit of a dragon and would notice when the reciepts started coming in.[B)]

JohnD
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Post by JohnD » 16 Aug 2003, 19:46

I've been running diesel cars for twentyfive years now and remember when the cost of diesel was very little more than half the price of petrol. As the popularity of diesel vehicles increased, so did the price differential decrease. LPG is low at the present, but for how long? More users = an increase in taxation.

kafkaian
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003, 16:05

Post by kafkaian » 03 Sep 2003, 16:48

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JohnD</i>

I've been running diesel cars for twentyfive years now and remember when the cost of diesel was very little more than half the price of petrol. As the popularity of diesel vehicles increased, so did the price differential decrease. LPG is low at the present, but for how long? More users = an increase in taxation.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<font size="2">Yes I think this is correct - although politically any government would be unwise to over tax what is considered a green fuel at the moment. Having said that, a neighbour of mine runs an LPG converted Range Rover [V] which always sounds like a bag of nails at any time. Can't say I'm up for it unless the manufacturer has done a proper assessment job with an LPG designed unit. As for conversions? [xx(] </font id="size2">

chizzy
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Joined: 22 Jul 2001, 00:54

Post by chizzy » 28 Sep 2003, 15:33

Read some of the threads regarding bio-diesel.Cooking oil is c. 9-15p a litre at your local Theftway. Up to you if you tell the taxman, but ultimately they'll tax anything. What this country needs is everybody to get p%&*ed off at the same time about the same thing - stop buying fuel for a week, see the tax drop then!

jeremy
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Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00

Post by jeremy » 02 Oct 2003, 05:25

I think there is a world of difference in buying a manufacturer - produced dual fuel vehicle and having your own vehicle converted. I think there are some grants available for some conversions but even so they are quite expensive. The array of manufacturers of conversions is bewildering and they all seem to think their kit is the only one that works. While they will no doubt work to some extent I cannot understand how the makers have the budget to develop anything properly - particularily considering the cost of properly developed things like superchips for petrol engines.
jeremy

hswift
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Joined: 17 Jul 2002, 17:31

Post by hswift » 10 Oct 2003, 00:08

Don't know how you get to Holland, but I'm pretty sure LPG vehicles aren't allowed through the Channel Tunnel.

JohnD
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Post by JohnD » 10 Oct 2003, 00:45

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hswift</i>

I'm pretty sure LPG vehicles aren't allowed through the Channel Tunnel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Your right! They're not - but they allow caravans with gas bottles on board. Doesn't make sense, does it?

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 10 Oct 2003, 01:07

From the Eurotunnel website.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Please help us by keeping gas cylinders (hydro-carbon gas) and their appliances switched off before boarding and whilst travelling on board. In addition, no more than 50kg of gas (maximum cylinder size 47kg) can be transported in a vehicle. Leaking or inadequately secured cylinders will not be accepted on the shuttle. We regret that vehicles fitted with an LPG tank cannot be accepted for transport by Eurotunnel. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So it seems they allow gas cylinders with the valve turned off only. Makes you wonder how safe LPG cars are on the road.[:0] Especially since I have to drive one every day. [:0] With the tank nicely located in the rear crumple zone. [xx(]
And from the people promoting Autogas in the UK.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Will my car be just as safe after conversion?</b>
Yes. Crash tests have shown LPG to be very safe. The gas is stored in a very strong tank that will withstand enormous impact forces without being damaged. And safety shut-off valves protect all fuel lines.
<b>What about taking my car abroad on holiday?</b>
....
Presently you cannot take a dual-fuel vehicle on the Eurotunnel but can travel on any of the ferry ships.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It may just be the cynic in me but those 2 statements don't hang together very well.[V]

Homer
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 11:52

Post by Homer » 10 Oct 2003, 08:27

After reading a bit more, it seems the system is designed to vent excess pressure (i.e. leak). And as LPG is heavier than air it would hang around in the tunnel. With the obvious safety implications.[B)]

Paulmi16
Posts: 167
Joined: 19 Dec 2002, 03:51

Post by Paulmi16 » 15 Oct 2003, 23:50

LPG is only worth considering if it is a properly factory fit system. Vauxhall and Volvo are the best ones.
Aftermarket systems do not work well with complicated cars eg Honda Vtec, so i would stay clear of these. Having worked for a conversion company, there are many horror stories I could tell.
Buy the diesel would be my advice.
Paul.

jeroen
Posts: 16
Joined: 03 May 2003, 20:57

Post by jeroen » 28 Oct 2003, 16:03

I'm currently driving a bx 16 tgi with lpg fitted from day one.. it now has 218.000 kms on the clock, and driving smooth as ever.I think one should look at the way you use your car, lots of short bits + city lpg would be preferred by me , because of a shorter warm up period and offcourse cleaner exhaust fumes.
Lots of highway travel the diesel is better hands down.
Just my 2 (euro) cents

thomas
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 Oct 2003, 04:38

Post by thomas » 30 Oct 2003, 03:03

I work in the vehicle leasing industry manufactures lpg systems are only the better after market systems. We have had a fleet of citroen 1.4 petrol vans converted and are having some running problems with them.

jeroen
Posts: 16
Joined: 03 May 2003, 20:57

Post by jeroen » 03 Nov 2003, 07:35

I am sorry to say but an LPG feuled car car should not be driven by your typicar "white van driver"
LPG , like diesel cars need some care..
drive warm slowly for instance.. a good valve adjustment for seconds and not all mecanics know how to do that simply because they do not usually handle that kind of stuff.
the BX i run has 218000 km on the clock. This shows a decent car can handle LPG , not that it must.
If you indeed run a company car-fleet, lpg would not be a first choice simply because of the way your employees handle cars..
sorry to be a bit harsh, but I drove a landrover diesel during my army time and I managed to bust the gearbox as well as the engine, just because of my way of driving (yes , i know what i wreck :) ) just because i did not have to pay the repairs

oilyspanner
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Post by oilyspanner » 09 Nov 2003, 01:28

In the event of a nasty accident, in my diesel car I can share a cigarette with the firemen as they cut me from the wreckage.
There is also the oft forgotten fact that LPG is a fossil fuel and thus a finite resource, with the dash to gas in power generation and home heating its likeley to become scarcer, then watch the tax rate soar, My Diesel can run on Biodiesel and at a push cooking oil, both of which count as renewable fuels.
Stewart