DS3 Racing on Top Gear NOW.

Post by **CitroJim** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:04

Deanxm wrote: Chris, wash your mouth out, bloody mini, grumble grumble

Dean, quite right. Chris, you should be ashamed...

Dean, they're some lovely looking beaches

A hot day today and they're deserted. My kind of beach that

Is all of the IOW that good?

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:06

Danielle's brother has a Bini, from new, and it's forever back with the dealer, suffering mechanical and electrical failures and worst of all, RUST!
It's not even 3 years old!

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:07

Maybe its just me but I cannot get excited by any of these small cars at all.

They just do nothing for me for various reasons......

Its also new cars in general, the vast majority of them look hideous and, sorry to say, the DS3 is no exception. Maybe I'm spoilt though by one of Pininfarina's finest.

......Just me then....

I did envy the blokes though, I'd love to be able to drive something in anger round Monaco.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:08

(I don't see any Citroën-ness in a DS£ anyway)

Fair ppoint and i will agree, its about as citroen as my cooker but the ds cash cow pays for the money pit that is the c6 remember.

D

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:10

Is all of the IOW that good?

In short jim, yes

you have to be local to find these beaches

D

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 03 Jul 2011, 22:34

I have heard Minis are not the most reliable things either. Not well built, when they came out I went to look at one at the dealers, I broke the front seat mechanism when getting into the back and the sales person broke the one on the other side doing the same

I am of the opinion that small cars should be cheap, fun to drive, fun revvy engine, under-powered, cheap to run, ideal about town and low on depreciation but with room for a few people and not too bad on a run either. We always have a towncar kicking about as they are so much easier to dart about town in. I say I like small cars under-powered as I like driving them for all they have, grip levels being predictive and less than a higher powered car generally. I find I have more fun in this sort of thing than in a sporty car, as the speeds can get silly before you really start enjoying the experience. This is one reason im often out in our C1, the engine sounds great and performs well when revved hard and it thrives on it, its like a go cart but with 4 seats, 5 doors and air con, my ideal small car .... not to mention it sips fuel, has extremely low depreciation, its cheap to buy new and its good fun too ...

.... I could never go and spend £15K-£23K on a small car, I could think of so many cars to buy before I did that and even then I wouldn't enjoy it as it would be a compromise, fine if I had a big car too. I mean you need £16K to get a new Fiesta, Polo etc with a diesel engine and a spec with air con, seems a lot for a small car to me.

Small, light and cheap to run cars or large and refined cruisers, they are what I like

The Activa does most things well, apart from the running cost bit but I can forgive it for that

Stekelly · Post by **Stekelly** » 03 Jul 2011, 23:05

Dammit, missed it. When it TG repeated these days?

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 04 Jul 2011, 00:03

Stekelly wrote:Dammit, missed it. When it TG repeated these days?

8pm, Wednesdays, BBC2

Alternatively, watch it on iPlayer.

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 04 Jul 2011, 10:28

Small to medium cars have become fashion accessories, intended for the younger end of the market.
Whatever they promise is largely undelivered, it's all a fantasy that some buyers find irresistible, which is of course intentional. Car manufacturers have very persuasive ad and marketing departments with huge budgets, very good at overcoming any potential resistance to their latest 'new' concept.
The majority of so called 'hot hatches', strangely an 80's concept, are lardy gadgets that would be blown away by a humble 205 GTI 1.9 or Mk1 Golf GTi.
How I wish I could buy a new, utility, small car for £5k that would provide economy and genuine practicality without all the nonsense that we are told is indispensable, but in fact are just more things to go wrong.
What I want in fact is a modern 2CV for that £5k. Would rather have 100mpg with the genuine ability to carry 4 adults, or an awkward load, comfort and utility than lane warning sensors, ipod dock, auto this, assisted that etc. Oh, and the viability to repair it myself if I choose to.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 04 Jul 2011, 12:09

That's what I loved about my 205Ds, they weren't as small as other small cars on the market, infact with the seats down there was loads of room inside.
I used to get 50-60mpg all the time (with my driving!)

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 04 Jul 2011, 12:55

I've been reading this thread with some amusement when mention is made about Mini's being unreliable, almost as if its assumed that PSA car's are more reliable, what hasn't been mentioned is that small BMW engines are made in collaboration with PSA

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:59

It's the difference between a company that tries to make out it's high quality that you can't make reliable, with one you know is going to have issues but you can fix them and add the reliability.
I know which one I'd rather have.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 04 Jul 2011, 14:23

Having owned 7 BMW's and through work personal experience of what must now be over 100 of them being driven flat out all day every day, BMW's are very reliable which is why Police forces buy them. Having also bought five brand new Citroen's and owned countless others, by comparison the BMW's have been far more reliable. As for how fixable a BMW is well the great thing about them is that BMW take a traditional approach then engineer it more robustly.

Citroening · Post by **Citroening** » 04 Jul 2011, 20:58

An interesting discussion this has become!
As noted before, I'm not a fan of Bini's at all - probably because I am a Classic Mini fan myself and have restored mine from scratch over the years. IMO they're aren't a proper Mini that are owned by BMW and therefore German - I saw a Bini the other day with a Union Jack on the roof!

Dad had a large range of Bini's at one point for sale ranging from Cooper, Cooper S and also the top on the performance tree, the John Cooper Works so I've seen quite a few of them! My mum actually ran a Cooper for a while not too long back. For a small car it was terrible on fuel - it basically lived at the petrol station and was so juicy it was unreal!

We've now got mum a C3 1.4 HDi which is completely opposite - we're getting 70 MPG out of it which is great!

Thinking back to mum's Bini, it liked it's tyres very much indeed and they weren't cheap either as they were run flats.

Even being a Cooper with it's 1.6 engine the performance wasn't that good but the same couldn't be said about the Cooper S - a very entertaining drive indeed from what Dad said. The JCW (215BHP) was even better...

It's obvious that people really do like the Bini and that won't change, but it won't be for me! You can't beat a nice A-Series engined Classic Mini, but then again you'd never really want to go a long distance in one for obvious reasons!

The C3 really suits us well for a little car for short journey's and for mum to use - 70MPG, £20 a year to tax and (so far) totally reliable.

Roll on cheap DS3 Racing's I say...

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 04 Jul 2011, 21:02

HDI wrote:Small to medium cars have become fashion accessories, intended for the younger end of the market.
Whatever they promise is largely undelivered, it's all a fantasy that some buyers find irresistible, which is of course intentional. Car manufacturers have very persuasive ad and marketing departments with huge budgets, very good at overcoming any potential resistance to their latest 'new' concept.
The majority of so called 'hot hatches', strangely an 80's concept, are lardy gadgets that would be blown away by a humble 205 GTI 1.9 or Mk1 Golf GTi.
How I wish I could buy a new, utility, small car for £5k that would provide economy and genuine practicality without all the nonsense that we are told is indispensable, but in fact are just more things to go wrong.
What I want in fact is a modern 2CV for that £5k. Would rather have 100mpg with the genuine ability to carry 4 adults, or an awkward load, comfort and utility than lane warning sensors, ipod dock, auto this, assisted that etc. Oh, and the viability to repair it myself if I choose to.

I agree, too many cars are form over function now, this is very evident by the range of 'Sport Tourers' in place of the much loved large estate cars, very disappointing.

Yes, simplicity if often a nice thing, however I think a lot of people (me included) would miss the luxuries and benefits of a modern car. There are many reasons why cars are more complicated now than they used to be, environmental, safety, ease of use etc.

A couple of people have asked me to find a car for them recently, they both said they would like a car with manual everything and nothing unnecessary to go wrong. So I came up with some ideas and they then started piling on spec which they would like, air conditioning, electric windows and remote locking was a must, one said they want leather and cruise ... not really my idea of a back to basics car! I think most people would feel the same, if not, we would all be running around in cars from the 80s and early 90s in basic trim levels.

One thing I do like about the C1 is its simplicity, you really can't get much more simple, they use a well proven and hardy engine which is fun and economical and I have not heard of a failure yet. No multi=plexing, everything is well built but easy to replace and cheap to do so. It has to be the cheapest car to buy, own and run at the moment, they are superb if that is what you want. Obviously they lack luggage space but for people its not bad at all, im 6ft 2 and easily fit in the back of it - I dont in the new C3!

The Mini does indeed use PSA joint engines, however it is not engine troubles which seem to be the most common thing, poor build and electrical gremlins seem the most popular.