Why French Cars?

[Citroenmad]

I think and hope it will be a good few years yet before an electric car is a viable and possible replacement, so I wouldn't sweat over that just yet! I mean the most ordinary electric car is the Nissan Leaf, there are so many reasons why you wouldn't but one, the name is just one! Having to drive 100 miles then stop for 8 hours to charge up would be slightly annoying.... I guess electric cars will be even more throw away than cars of today, as the cost both financially and environmentally of replacing batteries on aged electric cars will be substantial. Its not viable now and it wont be for years to come, or at least i hope not. Interest in cars will certainly dwindle when it does. As they wont be cars, they will be soulless plastic/metal boxes, with no sound, no emotion and no character... maybe even worse than a Jap car!


Anyway, why do I like French cars. For me this is more than just suspension related, though that is a big part and its not hugely styling related either.

Its very hard to put my finger on why I favour French cars, I wouldn't even say im brand loyal, as ill look at anything with intent of buying it, but if it doesnt interest me I know ill not keep it for long so why bother buying it.

I like all French cars, Renaults, Peugeots but mostly Citroens.

I do like Citroens history, its always been at the forefront of innovation in so many areas. From styling, features, ground breaking technology etc. I agree that its older cars are better than the ones sat in Citroen showrooms now, and i am dissapointed with some the most up-to-date Citroens. Especially the 'Germanic' C5III, as its not a true big Citroen in my opinion. When you look back at previous Citroens, from the 1930s onwards, every model has introduced something different and every model has been totally different. I know a lot of people hate the original C5, but it did move the Citroen game on and its still a true Citroen. The big Citroens were known for their space, refinement and huge estate cars. - there is no vast estate car with the C5III, most have steel springs, its not especially spacious and it doesnt really move technology forward, its a little boring, style over function in my mind, I wont be buying one any time soon.

I hate boring cars, weather that be boring to look at, boring to drive, but mainly them having no interesting features would make me lose interest fast.

Usually French cars have a slight character to them, some models more than others. I usually like their styling (I dont like all French car styling, and some Citroens im not too fussed on their looks - and not, im not including the C5 there), features etc, but most of all their funky-ness!

The fact French manufacturers think up an idea and then put it into production intrigues me. Things such as the Renault Avantime, who would ever want an MPV Coupe? Very few, but they made it anyway. Citroen have had many innovative designs, both with styling and mould breaking technology. The DS was quite a daring car in its day, radically different, though it was a huge success. Peugeot are usually the less radical branch of the French car trio, while it often offers more stylish cars to Citroen, its innovation is minimal and its list of daring cars is much shorter, the 607 (a car which was never going to sell in big numbers) and the 1007 (something which might have taken off but didnt) springs to mind. When I drive our 1007 it gives me a feeling that im driving something of a concept car, as its very unusual and different to most city cars, what with its electric sliding front doors and sensodrive gear box, high driving position, MPV style rear seats etc. Buts its actually a great and well thought out car. Im not sure if it is the case, but since Peugeot joined ranks with Citroen, it seems that it has been slowly holding Citroen back, especially today, where Citroens are Peugeots with little in the way of Citroen-ness.

Citroen is by far the most interesting French car maker and one of the most interesting makers compared to anything elese, for innovation if nothing else. I love looking back into Citroens history, the things which have been designed and put into production with Citroens and French cars in general is amasing. The first mass produced front wheel drive car, the worlds first hatchback, first monocoque chassis, first car with steering headlights, self leveling suspension .. the list goes on.

Even with our modern Citroens, its nice to know they are apart of that history, having many of the features designed years ago. It is a shame Citroens are less Citroen-ey now though. The C6 is a true modern Citroen, though i do wonder how much longer that will be available for or if it will get replaced.

The suspension does also draw me to large Citroens, it will always be well ahead of steel springs and its benefits are huge, not just comfort related, but safety to. With my daily duties my C5s suspension impresses, weather that be wafting down a motorway in ultimate comfort, providing extra ground clearance when needed or it kneeling down to let my dogs out to its great self-levelling suspension to cope with heavy loads, its a great piece of innovation, which is very much desired by me. Cars with steel springs seem so primitive!

The fact ive been brought up with Citroens all my life has obviously help lead me in this direction. My family has never been without atleast one hydraulic Citroen, mainly because my parents have had the Traction 29 years, which is 6 years more than they have had me! Though we have had numerous BXs, a CX, Xantias, Xms, before those GSs, DSs. It would be easier to list what we have not had at some point. Usually they were all quite modern and new at the time, but we have had examples more recently and id find it hard to be without an Xm now. As far back as I can remember my parents had al at the same time: a bright yellow Accadiane Mixte, a Bx TZD estate, a BX RD, C15D, Traction. We have had a few non-Citroens and some non-french too, but never have we been withot a French car.

I also can't understand what people say about French cars and reliability, not once have we had any major problems with any French cars. However cars of other makes we have had, one German car we owned a few years ago required a new engine at two years old, another German car required a gearbox rebuild - not something we have had with a Citroen.

I will say though, maybe its to do with their values and fast depreciation, but French cars often get into the hands of people who dont care about them, and with no or little care, just like anything else, it will go wrong. So maybe this is how they get their bad reputation, but certainly in my experience they are no worse than other makes. Yes you get a few niggly faults and some have design issues, but not more than other makes of cars.

I generally go to France holidaying for a few weeks every other year. The French lifestyle appeals to me, but that is not why i like their cars.

I guess some people can't understand my liking of C5s, but they are a true Citroen, with its suspension, space, refinement, etc - so that appeals to my Citroen side. However as a car, they do EVERYTHING I want and need from any car. Which a good Citroen should be able to do!

I could go on all day, looks like I did ... but thats more than enough reasons to like French cars for the moment!

[VertVega]

Citroenmad, I enjoy reading your long posts, thanks again

My reasons in brief:
- Suspension (Mostly driving long distances, variable roads, conditions.)
- Not a mainstream one (I can NOT imagine owning a Toyota or Volkswagen etc.)
- Reliability (Mine never let me down and I also take good care of my car.)

=================================================

Edit: An interesting experience concerning the suspension
Last weekend I have taken my daughter and one of her friend to a birthday party.
We decided that her friend's parents will drive them both back.

Yesterday while we were driving, she said that - " I never knew that you can jump
so much while sitting on your seat. What a bumpy ride it was. This one is so smooth."
I just said, I know

[Martin928]

After over 40 years with Citroens I still don't know why I like them. Until, that is, I sit in or drive another make.

Then I know!

[R9UKE]

What a great thread, although Chris as usual has voiced an opinion very similar to mine.

Well I've only been driving two years, but wasted no time in getting the cars that I always wanted growing up (they're cheap now!)

I love all three frenchies, but Renault has to come top. Who else has the guts to put cars like the Avantime into production, they achieve the 5 Star NCAP rating before anyone else, AND they are always first to filter great new technological innovations into affordable cars - this is the point I'll expand on now.

The Renault 25 of 1983 had remote central locking - wow! The base spec 2011 Volkswagen Polo still requires a key in the door, while the base level Clio of 2001 had remote locking. Tyre pressure sensors were fitted to the Laguna in 2011, a huge safety innovation (granted, they always go wrong). They were the first to move away from the key with the Renault Card in 2001. Then in 2002 the Mégane came along, that could be unlocked, started and locked again with the key card in the pocket - Correct me if I'm wrong, but Citroen and Peugeot STILL don't offer this keyless drive feature which even the Suzuki Swift now has. And now, the Renault TomTom range is bringing sat nav to the masses!

They offer a huge range of quirky and excellent cars that I will NEVER get bored of. From the ass shaking Mégane, to the beastly Vel Satis. The electronically-plagued Laguna to the mundane Safrane. They all have individual character and their own personalities - something which VW or Audi have never been able to do.

So I can live with reliability issues, the rest of the car MORE than makes up for it. And where's the fun in owning a car that doesn't pose a challenge every now and then!? With a Toyota or Nissan - the R word is all you get... well, Toyota are managing to ruin even that.

Citroen are next. I remember plipping my C5 open in the morning and the suspension would start to adjust itself - an excellent way to start the day. The ride that big Citroens give is absolutely unique. I then went and bought a BX, and now I'm after a Xantia! But nowadays, Citroen are becoming a bit more mundane (with the exception of the DS3), which I'm sad to see.

Peugeot have never produced much excitement for me. They are cars I like, not cars I love.

So there you go. Rant over.

[Toby_HDi]

Peugeot have never produced much excitement for me. They are cars I like, not cars I love.

Not even the 406 Coupé?

[Citroenmad]

Luke: Some interesting points ...

I don't agree with the keycard, which i think is why not many manufacturers have adopted it and the keyless entry. A key is more user friendly and more reliable. Plus you still need a hand free to open the door handle, so you might as well have the key in your hand too.

Im not sure if you agree, but i feel Renault cars of the moment are not as good or nice looking at they were a few years ago, just like Citroen has gone. The new Megane 5 door is no looker, the Laguna III is nothing like the sleek original design of the II. The Scenic III is very ugly, where as the II is a very good looking car.

Renaults do have some very nice reatures, even simple thing like the genuine carpet mats for most of the late 2000 models, the quaility and stitching wouldnt look out of place in a house.

There are many Renaults i love, Icl. the Megane, Laguna II, Vel and Avantime. The RX4 is one Renault i love too, what a whaky design, but it actually makes for a gret car. We had a 2.0 16v petrol RX4 for some years as our family car. It was excellent, roomy MPV interior but with funky, quirky looks and off road ability. It used to tow our massive ifor williams horse trailer and two horses with ease. Ok so it was a 'tad' more than it should have pulled but it coped well. We only sold it when we found out, almost at cost, that Renault failed to design the brakes.

I agree, as nice as VW/Auid cars are and as reliable as Jap cars are - though thats now a myth as Toyota had that brake problem and Nissan is very closely linked to Renault and uses most of Renaults engines - they are all so boring.

Id say Renault are very french with their quirks, odd but great cars and designing.

[R9UKE]

Peugeot have never produced much excitement for me. They are cars I like, not cars I love.

Not even the 406 Coupé?

Never driven one. Very sexy looking cars but never really been in love with them. Perhaps a blast in the V6 version could change all that...

Im not sure if you agree, but i feel Renault cars of the moment are not as good or nice looking at they were a few years ago, just like Citroën has gone. The new Megane 5 door is no looker, the Laguna III is nothing like the sleek original design of the II. The Scenic III is very ugly, where as the II is a very good looking car.

I agree 100%! I have a feeling Renault design has peaked and is now on the decline. The best looking car that Renault are making must be the Laguna Coupé. As you said, the new Scénic looks a real awkward design, the 5 door Mégane is bland, the 3 door looks good, although I can't help thinking that there's a hint of 3-door Astra in there. In doing this, the cars are losing a lot of their personality, I would never have my friends new Mégane Coupé over mine (and not just because it's diesel! )

[stedmancinques]

I have always been a bit of a Francophile, food, wine, lifestyle.
My first French car was a Peugeot 504 TI, top spec, Kugelfischer injection, full leather, sunroof, etc. It was fabulous, one of the two cars I have owned in 45 years of driving that I wish I had kept. (The other was a MG YB).
Then quite co-incidentally, I was driving with my family past a field in Surrey, where there was a Citroen rally taking place, so I said, "Shall we just go in and have a look around for half-an-hour, or so? I was bitten. I looked for a DS, and ended up with a DS21 bvh (rhd).
Also co-incidentally, my wife wanted a replacement for her old Metro, and there was a well looked after GSA for sale at the other end of the village. She loved it, but tragically it was rear-ended after 5 years of her loving ownership by another woman not looking where she was going-in an Audi!
Meanwhile I had also acquired a GS C-matic (I have a disability which makes automatics or semi-autos a lot more convenient to drive than a converted manual). I sold the DS, and we found a replacement GSA for my dear wife, but within a few years it succumbed to tin-worm, so she switched to a Visa.
With our children growing up fast, our son acquired a Dyane as his first car, and a couple of years later my daughter embarked on driving in a twin-pot Visa.
The GS was superceded by a BX 1.9D, which was comfortable and leisurely in progress, but a failure of the box brought about its demise. My son moved on from the Dyane to an Ami8 break, which is still sitting, beautifully restored in our garage. He, needless to say, is married and lives a few miles away. We bought him a double garage as a wedding present, but it is occupied by his DS 19, tools and spares.
I replaced the BX with a 97 Xantia seven years ago, and it's still my current car. However, the auto box is just starting to show signs of its age (170k), and has suddenly become much slower in third to top changes. The likely costs of a re-build have been quoted to me at around £1200, and that's with the box out of the car. Double that for an engine-rebuild as well, and the economics just don't add up.Which is why I am looking for a V6, being, of course, totally mad. The Xantia has just passed its MOT as well.
However, I could not easily, or at all, give up the supreme comfort and handling that goes with hydro-pneumatic suspension, and I am at an age where to enjoy things while I still can is starting to become an issue of awareness!

[stevenc75]

Some really good replies to this thread.

[Martin928]

'I am at an age where to enjoy things while I still can is starting to become an issue of awareness!'

Yep, that's us too!

Just about to take possession of probably the last hydraulic Citroen we will own, after most of a driving life time with them.

After that? Boxy, cheap, computer-ridden runarounds, that's if they let us keep our licences and we can afford the fuel.

[Citroenmad]

I agree 100%! I have a feeling Renault design has peaked and is now on the decline. The best looking car that Renault are making must be the Laguna Coupé. As you said, the new Scénic looks a real awkward design, the 5 door Mégane is bland, the 3 door looks good, although I can't help thinking that there's a hint of 3-door Astra in there. In doing this, the cars are losing a lot of their personality, I would never have my friends new Mégane Coupé over mine (and not just because it's diesel! )

I agree, in fact i can't think of another good looking current Renault, the Lagune Coupe is by far the best!

I dont actually like the Megane Coupe either, its trying too hard and most of them with the smaller wheels just look odd.

However, i think current Peugeots are getting better, very few of the current range i dont like, even the 3008 looks quite good to me, or ill say id much rather have one of those than a Nissan Crashcar (Quashqui).

[R9UKE]

However, i think current Peugeots are getting better, very few of the current range i dont like, even the 3008 looks quite good to me, or ill say id much rather have one of those than a Nissan Crashcar (Quashqui).

Funny this. I think the Peugeot 308 3-door is an excellent looking car, but very rare. The 5008 looks much tidier than the Scénic and I love the 3008. My first reply was very unenthusiastic towards Peugeots - that has changed. I nipped out to our yard in work at lunch time today to see what I fancied a drive in. Two cars caught my eye. A Peugeot 607 and a 407. The 607 is a beautiful big car, really nice dash layout and so so quiet! It was the 2.0 HDi Executive version with that all important electric boot With 150,000 miles it was showing the typical french quality issues, but the engine and gearbox felt brand new. Lovely car.

But then....

I got in the 407. WOW - why hadn't I given them a chance sooner? The driving position has to be one of my favourite. You sit really far back from that raked windscreen and it drives beautifully. I wasn't sure what engine was in it, but it was diesel, and it's one of the only diesel cars I would consider. Had a real kick and is probably...dare I say it??... economical - yuck.

One thing I noticed that would really do my head in though - why did they integrate the climate control screen into the trip computer when the buttons sit at the bottom of the console? It's a clumsy and non-user friendly layout - it should have it's separate screen.

So... The 407 is the first Peugeot I actually WANT. 3.0 V6 Executive Auto PLEASE

[Citroenmad]

However, i think current Peugeots are getting better, very few of the current range i dont like, even the 3008 looks quite good to me, or ill say id much rather have one of those than a Nissan Crashcar (Quashqui).

Funny this. I think the Peugeot 308 3-door is an excellent looking car, but very rare. The 5008 looks much tidier than the Scénic and I love the 3008. My first reply was very unenthusiastic towards Peugeots - that has changed. I nipped out to our yard in work at lunch time today to see what I fancied a drive in. Two cars caught my eye. A Peugeot 607 and a 407. The 607 is a beautiful big car, really nice dash layout and so so quiet! It was the 2.0 HDi Executive version with that all important electric boot With 150,000 miles it was showing the typical french quality issues, but the engine and gearbox felt brand new. Lovely car.

But then....

I got in the 407. WOW - why hadn't I given them a chance sooner? The driving position has to be one of my favourite. You sit really far back from that raked windscreen and it drives beautifully. I wasn't sure what engine was in it, but it was diesel, and it's one of the only diesel cars I would consider. Had a real kick and is probably...dare I say it??... economical - yuck.

One thing I noticed that would really do my head in though - why did they integrate the climate control screen into the trip computer when the buttons sit at the bottom of the console? It's a clumsy and non-user friendly layout - it should have it's separate screen.

So... The 407 is the first Peugeot I actually WANT. 3.0 V6 Executive Auto PLEASE

The 308 took a bit of getting used to, but it is actually a nice look car now i am used to it. Bit of a bargain too, they do seem to depreciate. The 5008 is still a rare car, i think ive seen about 3 or 4 on the roads. Similar to a C4 Picasso, but it looks a little more laid back. The 3008 is growing on me too. The 207 is a great looking small car. It will be good to see the 407s replacement, as thats getting long in the tooth now and with its current tweeks it just looks a little odd. The 508 looks very promising.

The limiting factor with the 607 and the 407 is that they are both saloons, which i dont like and its not ideal for my uses. The 407 is a nice car and i do like the driving position too, what with all that car ahead of you. Though i didnt find it a million miles away from a C5s driving position, just a little lower.

The 407 will of either had a 1.6HDi 110 or a 2.0HDi 138, both are excellent engines, very quiet, smooth and yes, extremely economical! I get between 45-50MPG out of my 138 and I never hang around! What with its nice power delivery and torque, you cant help but be impressed.

The trip computer/climate is a better idea than the original type in my opinion. The centre console is the one used in the facelift C5s too, so it has the exact same buttons and display, I think it looks so much neater and it gives more options. You can have it showing the climate, or the climate settings and the MPG trip computer etc. Its like a small on board computer interface in those. I like it.

I looked at a few 407s while looking for a newer C5, but the saloon-ness just pout me right off and i dont like the SW as much, nor did I want an estate.

Very lucky to be able to sample so many cars, even for such a short time. I guess your not allowed to take them off site? I see you didnt buy the 607 though? Id have been struggling to resits that! I presume it didnt sell for much money either?

A v6 407 auto hey, they must be around for almost £20 on ebay now ... not the best car to have at the moment with the fuel hikes. They must be a bargain, if you can find one.

I could literally talk all day about French cars, but ill only clog up the forum

[robert_e_smart]

stedmancinques, an interesting car history there, but I see a couple of big noticeable absences.

No CXs or Xms in all your time as a Citroeniste?

[R9UKE]

I could literally talk all day about French cars, but ill only clog up the forum

That's what it's for! Haha.

Chris you've got a point, I'm not keen on saloons either, but then the 407 wouldn't look as good as it does. Plus, I bought a Volvo 740 saloon at the weekend - the boxiest saloon out there!!

It MUST have been the 2.0 HDi. The thing shifted really nicely. I also noticed that the rain sensor comes halfway down the windscreen to meet the sweeping area of the wipers, and the handbrake is positioned for LHD. I can forgive these flaws, I love the car.

Yes, you're right, I am lucky. I absolutely love my job because of this! The yard covers a good area and speeds of about 50 can be achieved (hope my boss doesn't read this). Cars can't be taken offsite by me though.

Sounds like you get an excellent mix of economy and performance from the C5. It's difficult to resist, but I'd be such a hypocrite and I can only imagine the stick I would get for giving into the fuel of the devil, as Jeremy Clarkson calls it