Classics Monthly - Citroen XM

robert_e_smart · Post by **robert_e_smart** » 09 Dec 2010, 23:56

PSA are here to sell cars, and make a profit. DS3 sells, and will sell well, regardless of what we think, and make profit. Unfortuantely the only current Citroen that interestes me; the C6 is a loss leader.

addo · Post by **addo** » 10 Dec 2010, 04:10

I'd love a C6 as well - sadly been saddled with some major debts in the last six months or I'd be "backdooring" a UK one over here, via a sojourn in NZ.

Didn't mind the C2, as it wasn't borrowing a name.

citroenesque · Post by **citroenesque** » 10 Dec 2010, 10:18

DS3 is a good car by today's standards. I'd have one. I think the adoption of the DS 'brand' is a bit silly but no more than that... I don't think anyone other than a few die-hard Citroen traditionalists really cares. In the end, taking the DS moniker will never detract from the immense respect that the original DS deserves.

I am clinically obsessed with Citroen (wife says) but I am not blind: The C2 is not a good car. The C6 is pretty (from most angles) but is a pretty pointless tour de force in this day and age. If one car needed to dispel the public's view that big French cars are a waste of time, it was the C6. Well, it hasn't done it as far as I can tell - any more than the XM did. The cars are fine, but if Citroen were serious about relaunching the 'DS' it should've been with the replacement for the original C5. And what did we get? An Audi made by the French. And, it has to be said: a strong seller in the sector.

Can't have it both ways.

addo · Post by **addo** » 10 Dec 2010, 11:01

I don't see the C6 as pointless - it would make an excellent machine to cover some of my travelled routes in. When you're going to traverse 1200+km in a day on "B" and "C" roads, possibly driving solo, it's hard to beat the comforts (including effective climate control) of a newer hydropneumatic car. My Xantia does this pretty well, save for a little too much wind and road noise entering the cabin.

Around town I still reckon a late 405 (SRi or SRDT) is the goods. Nimble, comfy, and quite safe. The DS3 is just a snazzy handbag.

XMs here are basically unrusted - most newer cars including they, go to their graves free of corrosion simply because they have become unfashionable and importers mark up spares prices excessively. In the end it may well be like the phenomenon of Americans buying back Mustangs from Australia due to how well they've been preserved, and people in the UK will seek out rust-free PSA cars from Down Under.

vince · Post by **vince** » 10 Dec 2010, 20:35

If Citroen do scrap the hydraulics it will no doubt force the hydraulic remaining Citroens even faster towards classicdom. Fine by me

I dont think you Activa boys have much to worry about in this game...They are totally unique cars in their set ups and so occupy a niche place in automotive history. Future classic......i reckon

V6 too as it always ends up that way...the top end spec cars go up first.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 11 Dec 2010, 21:51

I can't see the C6 as a pointless car, a lot of people ive spoken to about it love the way it looks and they would consider one. I think the depreciation puts a lot of people off, going from a near £40K price tag to a £12car in 4-5 years it not acceptable. The £30K plus price tag is too high for the Citroen brand to pull off, its had expensive cars in the past, cars which have rivaled luxury brands for price, but they have never been big sellers and never will.

A lot of people view French cars as unreliable rubbish, i guess you have all heard people saying s**t! Though these views are rarely backed up they do seem to stick with people.

I cant say there are many cars in the Citroen range which i dislike, the C-crosser is one of them, an ugly, pointless car which again does not sell.

The small Cs are excellent, small cars have always been huge successes for Citroen, ever since the 2cv Citroen has made very appealing small cars. The current range of small Citroes are very, very good. The C2 was a great car, tiny inside but it sold reasonably well and kept small Citroens popular with young people, they offered a sporty drive for little money. I think Citroen needs a car which appeals to youth, first cars and second cars are where Citroen makes big money.

The C1 has been a massive hit, i rarely go anywhere without seeing one. Though it did help kill off the C2, as it offers much more space, cheaper running, a better drive and its cheaper to buy. I think they are great.

The new C3 is a good car, very dissapointed with the interior space, less than the C1 has in the rear.

DS3 is a good car and keeps the Citroen in with the sporty small hatches, though its pricier than previous small citroens it does sell and thats what Citroen needs. While i see why Citroen has used 'DS', to hark back to their heritage and promote a more prestigious model range, it is a bit odd not to have a modern day DS on the range. There is a DS5 coming, and not doubt it will be a nice car, but it wont be a DS, Citroen never, ever recreate what they have done previously.

WHile the current C5 is a bit German and most models do without hydraulic suspension, they are still good cars and i really like the look of them. However they dont have the space of the old one.

Citroen have really neglected one area which they have been very popuar for many years. A huge estate is now missing, the C5 Tourer does not compete, it has far less space than the old C5 estate and the shape of the sloping rear is no use.

Since the DS, or even the Traction familiale, Citroen has offered large, spacious cars with a large loadbay.

Certainly our current C5 estate will not be changed for a new C5 Tourer, ours works for its living and if it were any smaller it would be useless, making the Tourer not even a contender for its replacement, we'd probably go to Skoda for a new Superb estate!

Its also very dissapointed that the Germaic C5 is a saloon, i need a large hatchback, a saloon is totally useless to me, i might as well have a C1 with hardly any boot, at least the back is square.

Unless i update my C5 to one of the last Facelifted C5s, im really going to struggle finding a direct replacement, if not a facelifted C5 it will have to be from another manufacturer

Why do manufacturers make saloon cars in the family range, saloons are not big sellers in the UK, or Europe for that matter. I wish they would stick with hatchbacks, even ones like the C5 which look a bit like a saloon but have the practicalities of a hatch.

I often see C6s around here, always black or dark grey, sometimes a red one. I saw a 59 reg black C6 this morning, what a stunning car with real road presence.

If Citroen do move away from hydraulics totally it will be a huge shame, as its a big selling point for large Citroens. Very popuar with caravan towers etc. Not only that but the self leveling adds a safety factor, while some cars can ride well they rarely match the composure on offer with a big Citroen.

citroenesque · Post by **citroenesque** » 12 Dec 2010, 12:02

Maybe I ought to elaborate a bit. I apologise in advance for what might seem a bit negative. It's not.

When I said the C6 was pointless I was not saying the engineering wasn't impressive and I love the way it looks. Road presence indeed. No, I can't see the point in creating such a car when it is fairly obvious from the start it won't be a commercial success. If Citroen, with their DS brand (much like Toyota and Lexus) want to emphasise an elevated standard in their model range it doesn't help making it a Citroen C-anything. It contradicts their latest strategy with the DS brand. So loss-leader? It can't be, given that you have to ask who will be aspiring to a C6 but buy a C4 instead..? Surely the effort Citroen are putting into the DS brand means they will hope that that becomes the aspiration for it's potential customers. Far more likely the C3/C4 sales benefit from the DS3/4 and C6 sales will further suffer until it is replaced by a DS6?

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 12 Dec 2010, 20:32

The C6 was out years before the DS model range, however i see what you mean. Though i would suggest that a lot of people interested in the DS model range will not be interested in the C6 and vice versa.

Large French cars never sell well now, the Vel Satis, 607 and C6 all prove that, as do the cars before them and the cars before them. Though they still keep on offering large, luxury cars. I like that, as they are all very good cars and because they dont sell well new they are rare, unique and prices drop vastly, which is good for used buyers.

I hope Citroen continues with big 'pointless' cars

Citroening · Post by **Citroening** » 12 Dec 2010, 20:51

...well the C6 has certainly done a great job of 'replacing' the CX.

IMO the C6 is a great car...definitely not pointless! Citroen have created a uniquely french and quirky car, like the CX, but with all of the modern day normalities that you would expect from a car of 'today'. So what if it doesn't make Citroen any money, that's what the other 'normal' cars are for...the C6 is different and unique.

Vive la C6! $\:D/$