The law's an Ass.

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JohnD
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The law's an Ass.

Post by JohnD » 29 May 2003, 00:06

A senior ambulance officer on a delivery with a liver for a transplant operation has been flashed by a speed camera and is now to be prosecuted by Lincolnshire Police. He was on an emergency delivery from Leeds to Cambridge, a journey of 160 miles using flashing blue lights. He was 'caught' on the A1 doing 104mph. The bloke was a trained advanced driver whose been doing the job for ten years. At half past three in the morning the road would be virtually empty. In his specially equiped Vectra, at that speed and in those conditions, he would be relaxed and in perfect control. If the police gain a conviction on this, an automatic ban will follow. No licence - no job. It's an unfair world!

Homer
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Post by Homer » 29 May 2003, 01:10

One of the stupid things about this is that if they had rushed the patient to the kidney instead of the kidney to the patient. At the same speed but in a (bigger) less safe vehicle. Then they would not have been prosecuted because of the way this particular authority have chosen to read the rule book.

alan s
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Post by alan s » 29 May 2003, 05:10

This kind of stupidity is going on worldwide. I refer to it as "Treasury based Road Safety."
It seems all Governments have discovered a cash cow that they didn't know how to milk before & some inventor has turned them into the equivalent of prostitutes pimps...finding a variety of devious ways to make money without working for it!!
The mentality seems to be that road safety in general has gone out the window and is being replaced by a culture of defeat at being able to raise revenue from it whilst at the same time making something "being seen to be done" and they won't admit that instead of rewarding those who have tidied up their bad driving habits over the years, they are still trying to find devious ways of still penalising them hence cases such as these happen.
I personally feel there is a worldwide resentment that is starting to take place amongst drivers to the arrogant attitude of authorities and those politicians who still feel there is electoral mileage in pushing this barrow. My bet is that with a bit of organising (presently in the planning stage in Australia) that a few Government mebers voted out of office in marginal seats will get a message home. Once it starts affecting their incomes they'll start showing more interest.
To give you an example of what a "gutfull" people have had of it out here, have a look at this newspaper article from last Sunday's paper. They've been blitzing the young ones (some with just cause) so this has been the response. My guess is there is going to be more of it!! I warned the Transport Department recently that their attitude was going to cause "Civil disobedience" & thay as much as laughed at me; I had a call yesterday & have to discuss practical road safety & suggested solutions later today. Whether they listen or not is anyone's guess but at least I got their ear.
http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/co ... 65,00.html
Alan S

Paul Thomas
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Post by Paul Thomas » 02 Jun 2003, 21:46

Not quite the same but still talking about speed cameras:-
A colleague at work has received a speeding ticket in Hereford for doing 31 MPH in a 30 MPH zone. How the hell can anyone be that acurate with a analogue speedo ?

Homer
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Post by Homer » 03 Jun 2003, 07:38

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Paul Thomas</i>

A colleague at work has received a speeding ticket in Hereford for doing 31 MPH in a 30 MPH zone. How the hell can anyone be that acurate with a analogue speedo ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The answer is you can't and they can't prosecute. You are allowed 10% over the limit for just that reason. Your colleague should take the court appearance option.
The system relies on people accepting the fixed penalty/points. If everybody snapped by a camera were to demand their day in court the system would not be able to cope.

alan s
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Post by alan s » 03 Jun 2003, 10:02

Are your newspspers over there so gutless that they wouldn't blurt that from the front page?
With that red neck renegade Aussie who sold his birthrite for 20 pieces of silver (as Rupert Murdoch is normally described in this Country) surely his rags would make a meal of that.
They have tried it on out here; it's referred to as "zero tolerance" & that is exactly what electors are going to give some of these POliticians next election if they don't smarten their act up. It causes drivers to spend more time studying their speedo instead of watching the road, increases the road toll & then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy by increasing the road toll which is exactly the reason they give for doing it in the first place.
We all seem to have lost our potential statesmen & replaced them with spineless whimps doing the bidding for a few public servants & big business.
Alan S

allmond
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Post by allmond » 03 Jun 2003, 23:40

Sorry, you're NOT allowed 10%. If the limit is 30, then 31 is over the limit.
Speedos in the UK are allowed to overread by 10% but must not underread. So, if you're doing a real 30, they can show 33, but mustn't show 27 (or 29.99 for that matter.) To avoid problems most manufacturers take full advantage of the 10% so that when their speedos show 30, you're really doing 27. (Means you have to get your car serviced more often too!)
It's worth checking your speedo, you may be driving 10% below the limit whilst thinking you're being good!
ACPO guidelines are that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2 mph (say 35mph) but they are guidelines only, they are not an allowance in law.
Just wanted to set the matter straight - I have no sympathy with the camera Gestapo, they are just a cynical money-making exercise, nothing to do with road safety.
Jamie

alan s
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Post by alan s » 04 Jun 2003, 04:58

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by allmond</i>

Sorry, you're NOT allowed 10%. If the limit is 30, then 31 is over the limit.
Speedos in the UK are allowed to overread by 10% but must not underread. So, if you're doing a real 30, they can show 33, but mustn't show 27 (or 29.99 for that matter.) To avoid problems most manufacturers take full advantage of the 10% so that when their speedos show 30, you're really doing 27. (Means you have to get your car serviced more often too!)
It's worth checking your speedo, you may be driving 10% below the limit whilst thinking you're being good!
ACPO guidelines are that prosecutions start at 10% plus 2 mph (say 35mph) but they are guidelines only, they are not an allowance in law.
Just wanted to set the matter straight - I have no sympathy with the camera Gestapo, they are just a cynical money-making exercise, nothing to do with road safety.
Jamie
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
If this is the case, then if a partuicular brand of car has a speedo which through manufacture is constantly reading incorrectly, and this error can cause drivers to be fined for innocently breaking the speed limit even by 1MPH (using the case referred to as a precedent) then isn't there a case for a class action for damages against that car manufacturer?
Tell you what; if someone pulled that off, wouldn't that slow a lot of this Government "zero tolerance" rubbish.[}:)]
I wonder if they're so particular about the way thet do things themselves? Like accounting for their expense accounts.[:D][:D]
Any legal eagles here want to make a name for themselves?[;)]
Alan S

Homer
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Post by Homer » 04 Jun 2003, 11:38

I stick by what I said earlier.

allmond
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Post by allmond » 04 Jun 2003, 23:31

[/quote]
If this is the case, then if a partuicular brand of car has a speedo which through manufacture is constantly reading incorrectly, and this error can cause drivers to be fined for innocently breaking the speed limit even by 1MPH (using the case referred to as a precedent) then isn't there a case for a class action for damages against that car manufacturer?
Tell you what; if someone pulled that off, wouldn't that slow a lot of this Government "zero tolerance" rubbish.[}:)]
I wonder if they're so particular about the way thet do things themselves? Like accounting for their expense accounts.[:D][:D]
Any legal eagles here want to make a name for themselves?[;)]
Alan S
[/quote]
Alan
I agree with what you're saying, but that's why the tolerance is -0/+10% (If that's the right way round.) It's so that you can't blame your speeding on the manufacturer, because they have to err on the side of caution, rather than the other way round. They have to show your speed higher than it really is, and can't show it lower.
Jamie

Homer
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Post by Homer » 08 Jun 2003, 16:45

But if the speed camera has been set with a threshold of less than 10% plus 2mph over the speed limit then it is operating ouside the guidelines. That would be grounds to argue against the conviction.
And if everybody who got snapped took the case to court they would have years of backlog after a few days. Suddenly these roadside tax collectors would not be so attractive to the authorities.

chizzy
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Post by chizzy » 10 Jun 2003, 02:29

Every week I read another report of gatso destruction. The incidence is steadily increasing. Evolution is slow but inevitable! Cost/benefit will eventually favour the motorist, not the Revenue.

JohnD
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Post by JohnD » 10 Jun 2003, 23:38

I believe there is an organised group operating whose 'mission in life' is to destroy as many as possible. A year ago a camera on the road over Tadworth Heath in Surrey was torched and happily, it hasn't been replaced. Maybe they've decided it isn't an accident blackspot after all!!!!!

alan s
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Post by alan s » 11 Jun 2003, 03:32

About a year or so ago on the highway to the Gold Coast there was a mobile camera operating from within a van parked on the roadside, when out of the bush came some scruffy looking type who proceeded to hurl a "Molotov Cocktail" at the van while the copper was still inside[}:)][:0] It exploded when it hit the roof but by the time the whalloper got his brain into gear, the perpetrator had vanished. Nobody was hurt and an appeal to the public asking for information to catch him I understand was quite unsuccessful (I wonder why?) [:p]
The officer involved required "counselling" ....poor little dear..[:D][B)]
BTW, do you have any sites like this over your way??
http://www.roadwatch.com.au/
Alan S

shaunthesheep
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Post by shaunthesheep » 11 Jun 2003, 04:22