PSA recall 107/C1's

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 30 Jan 2010, 19:34

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8489079.stm

Peugeot Citroen, Europe's second-biggest carmaker, is recalling some cars made with Toyota in Europe.

"For Peugeot 107s and Citroen C1s, we are going to carry out an identical campaign as Toyota," a spokesman said.

The Japanese car giant has now recalled millions of cars worldwide with faulty pedals.

Both models are made in a Czech plant, a joint venture with Toyota that assembles around 200,000 Peugeot and Citroen cars every year.

Peugeot said "under 100,000" cars will be recalled. It did not say when the recall would begin.

spider · Post by **spider** » 30 Jan 2010, 20:11

I have not read what the "problem" was, does anyone know ?

I'd assume its a potentiometer throttle (ie: no cable or no "direct" link to the butterfly on a petrol engine)

Post by **Paul-R** » 30 Jan 2010, 20:56

Apparently it's a mechanical problem where the pedal sticks in the down position.

Could lead to a bowel movement or two...

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 30 Jan 2010, 21:49

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8488377.stm

'My Toyota crashed through a wall'

Derek McCall is an 81-year-old Toyota driver, from Ickenham, in west London.

On Friday 13 February 2009, his Toyota Auris accelerated out of control, crashed through a wall and into a garden. Toyota said the vehicle was not faulty.

Sounds like a worry

KP · Post by KP » 01 Feb 2010, 11:41

Good excuse to get off speeding ticket...

Also cant imagine a C1/107/aygo making someone poop their pants when it tried to accelerate even at full whack... very slow vehicles tbh

think Xantia 1.6 petrol with full load of people onboard....

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 01 Feb 2010, 15:41

I've been following this story for a while now, with great interest on the outcome, it appears to be an issue effecting almost all recent Toyotas.
the problem has existed for some time, I guess Toyota has finally traced the fault in their test environment. So far they have also issued a recall of 1.1 million cars has been issued in the USA for the same reason. Officially listed as a faulty Accelerator pedal, however from reading many of the stories from the US it seems the 'faulty pedal' may be smoke and mirrors, most mechanics suspect a software fault only manifest under certain conditions, unfortunately only whilst driving!

What ever the issue it must be very serious for Toyota to recall almost 3 million cars (1.1 in the USA 1.8 in Europe)

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 06 Feb 2010, 13:41

Xac wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8488377.stm

'My Toyota crashed through a wall'

Derek McCall is an 81-year-old Toyota driver, from Ickenham, in west London.

On Friday 13 February 2009, his Toyota Auris accelerated out of control, crashed through a wall and into a garden. Toyota said the vehicle was not faulty.
Sounds like a worry

I should probably have stopped driving right then, but I didn't. I thought: 'The trouble will probably go away if I drive on a bit'.

I carried on, but the car kept racing forward every time I touched the accelerator.

Indeed, a worry when someone is so stupid as to keep on driving when they know they have a sticking throttle.

spider · Post by **spider** » 06 Feb 2010, 16:58

I don't get this

Drive by wire / electronic throttle control , regardless even if it shorted and was fully "open" / manual or autobox , a good foot on the brakes and if needed switching the ignition off will bring it to a standstill.

*exceptions being diesels which are enjoying their own engine oil

(but that's not the case here)

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 06 Feb 2010, 17:42

You would think they are the first manufacturer to ever have a recall, this has been way over hyped by the media.
Loads of car makers have had much more serious ones than this including Citroen who have had loads, then there are the manufacturers with serious problems that refuse to admit theres a problem & don't recall them.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 06 Feb 2010, 19:02

spider wrote:I don't get this

Drive by wire / electronic throttle control , regardless even if it shorted and was fully "open" / manual or autobox , a good foot on the brakes and if needed switching the ignition off will bring it to a standstill.

*exceptions being diesels which are enjoying their own engine oil (but that's not the case here)

Yes, we know that, but going by that quote many drivers aren't actually that bright!

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 07 Feb 2010, 17:55

Problem is people generally panic, and don't think straight, also a lot of people press the breaks, when they don't slow the car down enough, they start to pump the breaks, which on these modern toyotas the breaks are quite computer controlled, will result in the break computer giving up, registering a breaking system fault, and reverting back to manual non assist breaking only, which makes the problem worse. Switching the ignition off not much help either, you loose power assist breaks, power steering, if your in an auto you loose the gearbox, so your coasting at 90mph!
Regarding the breaks issue I saw an recreation video where the guy actually demonstrates this happening, not the throttle jammed on, but pressing the breaks hard whilst keeping the throttle on.
Heres the vid, its designed for the American market hence why he's only referring to automatic transmissions.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2 ... rakes.html

I think a big deal is being made from this story as Toyota are currently the worlds largest car manufacture, (yes bigger than GM), and have a reputation for being very relyable and trustworthy, hence why it seems like a big deal, although there is a fair tendency for over exaggerate these days.

Oh yes further to the story, did you all hear toyota are considering recalling the newest Prius models apparently there may be faults in the breaking system! I see a bumpy future for the worlds largest car manufacture.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 07 Feb 2010, 18:05

I'm intreagued by the Prius brake issue when I heard about it.
Mate of mine has one as a company car in Brighton. At it's 10,000 mile service it's rear discs needed to be replaced due to rust!

spider · Post by **spider** » 07 Feb 2010, 20:11

Things like this put me off ABS (although that is quite handy sometimes!) , it's certainly putting me off other "features"...

EBFD and ESP etc etc

addo · Post by **addo** » 07 Feb 2010, 20:27

I'd suggest those concerns are misplaced. We're already safely living in the shadow of many computer-controlled events, from water quality to planes flying overhead.

Poor driver skills are the main cause of bad outcomes in these types of product failures. People should be more thoroughly taught to just stand on the brakes if it's looking grim; not to shilly-shally about with a light pressing.

Much as that, people also seem to press on, when stopping to evaluate a problem could be smarter (and safer).

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 08 Feb 2010, 11:04

For anyone still following this story the BBC are claiming the total recall count to be around 7.4 million

However the new Wiki article claims around 9 million

I'm unsure which is accurate, but even going by the lower figures of 7.4 million thats a lot of recalls!
With talk of more to come!

Would I be correct in saying this is the largest automotive recall ever, I did a bit of searching, but can't find records of a larger recall.

*edit* no wait just found one... Ford still just higher, making Toyota 2nd largest recall, maybe with the Prius recall will put them over the top

heres a link..
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/total- ... ape_ext_1/

Sources
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8502894.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Toyot ... le_recalls