I am seething with anger at Honda...

[macaroni]

Just got to vent this and here seems the best place...

I am a long time detractor of Japanese cars. I feel they are contrived, ugly and redue the car to the level of a commodity.

Most of my vitriol used to be directed at Toyota for dumbing down the car, but I have recently redirected it at Honda. Initially for their diesel engine ad, but most recently I saw a magazine ad for the FR-V.

It highlights innovations in lighting beginning with the candle, through the storm lantern, torch and desk lamp, ultimating the the FR-V with it's headlamps that turn with the steering.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

The Japanese never innovate, just plagiarise. I hate the FR-V even more for it's "innovative" 6 seater arrangement. They seem to have conveniently forgotten FIATs Multipla - both versions.

Sorry to unload at so early a time, but just don't get me started on the new Civic...

Antony

[James.UK]

I don't think people in the UK see any Honda as being more than very reliable.. Thats what they are famous for, and they seem to live up to that reputation quite well.

It's not a fast car, an economic car, nor is it particularly eye catching, but it's well equiped, leather seats, air con, cruise control, blah blah, and as stated, they seem to be very reliable.. And in my case, as the big decider on purchase, it only cost me £600!. (off eBay) So I am very happy with my Honda!!

Ooops I nearly forgot! I had to get a new condensor (looks like another radiator) fitted when I bought it as the old one leaked, that cost me £250 including testing and regassing the air con. So the total cost of the car was £850..

I have just had my Accords MOT done (1st one since I owned it) and it needed nothing doing..

Lots of the so-called sales adds, seem to have been designed by nut cases, but that applies to many TV adds theses days! Not just cars
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[bxbodger]

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The Japanese never innovate, just plagiarise

There's nothing wrong with plagiarisation! That's how Soichiro Honda built his reputation- he went to the TT, failed miserably, looked, learned, went back next year and won; purely by copying what he saw but then engineering it properly.....yet still Brits laughed at the Black Bomber until it started eating Gold Stars for breakfast on the way to Brighton or Southend with an engine of half the size!

And that's how we all learn, by copying: only some people put what they learn into practice better than others.

The Wright brothers were long accused of pinching other peoples ideas, and maybe they did, maybe other people did do powered flight before them but when the Wrights flew they demonstrated that only they could do it over and over again- because their engineering was better than anyone elses.

It's much the same with Honda- they may not have invented much, although I think they may have been responsible for VVT, and were amongst the first to stick an in line four and disc brakes in a bike frame, but what they do do , they do very well, which is why people who may not be interested in cars buy them in their droves; they start, they drive, they stop, and they don't break down,and they hold their value, which is all most people want, really.........and if Honda decided to do hydro-pneumatic suspension, you just know they'd do it really really well, and there'd be none of those little pools of green oil that we all know and love!

[macaroni]

No, FIAT invented VVT in the 60s. See what I mean?

Fair enough, they plagiarise and make things better, but they shouldn't infer they invented things ilke headlights that turn with the wheels.

Some people don't learn by copying, they learn by innovating and if they get it wrong, so what, at least they have tried something new.

[PowerLee]

Just got to vent this and here seems the best place...

I am a long time detractor of Japanese cars. I feel they are contrived, ugly and redue the car to the level of a commodity.

Most of my vitriol used to be directed at Toyota for dumbing down the car, but I have recently redirected it at Honda. Initially for their diesel engine ad, but most recently I saw a magazine ad for the FR-V.

It highlights innovations in lighting beginning with the candle, through the storm lantern, torch and desk lamp, ultimating the the FR-V with it's headlamps that turn with the steering.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

The Japanese never innovate, just plagiarise. I hate the FR-V even more for it's "innovative" 6 seater arrangement. They seem to have conveniently forgotten FIATs Multipla - both versions.

Sorry to unload at so early a time, but just don't get me started on the new Civic...

Antony

Hmmmmm, new Civic, Honda f****d up that as well, only managed to get a 4 star EuroNcap safety result Thats awful these days for a brand new model from a large major car manufacturer

Could be MUCH worse though, anybody seen the really shocking NCAP test result the Chrysler Voyager has just got

Edited for clean language by moderator 8)

[_kid_]

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The Japanese never innovate, just plagiarise

.........and if Honda decided to do hydro-pneumatic suspension, you just know they'd do it really really well, and there'd be none of those little pools of green oil that we all know and love!

Hondas and Japanese cars in my opinion are the leaders and everyone else follows, they test their products far better than all other manufacturers, which is reflected in customer satisfaction surveys.

I recall a review on a xantia, a guy liked his xantia a lot, but had a few problems with it, he ending by saying “a Citroen built by Honda- now that is a car for life”

I couldn’t agree more.

[James.UK]

>>>nor is it particularly eye catching,<<<

I've had 2nd thoughts since making that remark, its not a bad looking car really .. ..The front slot is sorta ZX looking...

[jeremy]

Over time loads of ideas get thrown up - and the swivelling headlights must have been abandoned by Citroen at least 30 years ago. If it was protected by any registration it was probably quite easy to circumvent ai I can think of several methods of operating it that would probably work - yet no one has used it - even Citroen. This means that either its just a gimmick (which is quite possible with well designed lenses - or no one bothers to use main beam which also seems to be true round here)

So Good for Honda to take up this idea.

What's wrong with Honda's diesel advert? Seemed to get the point that clean diesels could be made across rather nicely?

Many of the things we expect in our cars today originate from Japan - like reliability - and decent quality interiors with dials etc. Not really teh zenith of auto design - but strangely - it was what people wanted. Difficult for some manufacturers to accept that people who bought cars expected them to work but its an idea which seems to be gaining popularity.

[reblack68]

The worst car I've ever driven was a Japanese car. It was a 1991 Mazda 626. Like most Mazdas of the era it had virtually no brakes at all. It was slow to the point of being dangerous, but still faster than the chassis could handle. The fuel economy was barely into double figures and it had less passenger and luggage space than the Fiesta I was driving at the time. This wasn't a neglected example, it was a dealer serviced car with barely 100k miles up.

Lifting the bonnet was like a timewarp, everything looked like it belonged in the early 1970s.

As for Honda- I had the misfortune to drive a Honda Stream last year. It had the V-TEC engine that Honda are so proud of. The power band was so high up the rev range that you couldn't legally access it in any gear higher than second. Below the power band there was nothing. A gutless engine can be forgiven if the car can maintain a reasonable speed. The Stream couldn't though, it felt extremely unstable on corners. Apparently this particular car averages 28mpg on long runs. My old Peugeot 505 GTI Family could better that on local work, even with 240k miles up and dodgy fuel injection. It was faster too.

[philhoward]

I had the unfortunate experience of driving a Toyota Corolla Verso with one of those new fangled (!!!) semi-automatic tip-tronic style boxes that tried to be clever and mimic manual changes. God knows who they used to program it, but it was worse than a learner. Full throttle, change up, and the SURGE that occurred made me feel ill - what a lurch! I ended up trying to mimic the manual change (and release the throttle just before changing - as you do in a manual) - at which point it thought i was slowing down, and changed up even slower!

Bloody thing...was glad to give it back!

Now I know the hatred that Top Gear presenters have of flappy-paddle gearboxes...

[OwenP]

I must admit my GF quite likes her C3 with triptronic gear box, but I've not driven it myself so can't comment.

I did unfortunately drive a Toyota Colorado a couple of years back, large vehicle, no cabin space and felt like it weighed half a gram, but with brakes worked for half a gram not 2 tonnes or whatever the thing weighed

[uhn113x]

>>>nor is it particularly eye catching,<<<

I've had 2nd thoughts since making that remark, its not a bad looking car really .. ..The front slot is sorta ZX looking...

Hi James
But, a ZX is quite "normal" looking! It's the only car we have had where I have had to put a couple of bits of coloured heatshrink sleeving on the top of the aerial so I can spot it on a big car park!
The DS is longer than everything else and the Dyane towers above everything else. 8)

PS: I assume your Honda came from someone called Andy?

All
As to plagiarisation, surely all good ideas are used by many others unless this is limited by patents? Steerable headlights have reappeared; what about Herr Diesel (CI engine), M Beau de Rochas (4-stroke), Mr Lochhead (hydraulic brakes), Mr Dunlop (pneumatic tyres)? We have all plagiarised them!
OTOH, many so called "inventors" were just good salesmen!
We have all heard of Marconi and Baird, but what about Campbell-Swinton, Lodge, Fleming, Branly, Blumlein, Zworykin, White? No, thought not.

[James.UK]

Ello Michael!! (uhn113x) Yep.. yep.. it did belong to a carpenter called Andy!! how the heck do you know that???? You know every car in the UK personaly??

Strange things cars wiv ECU's .. The Accord drove like a snail till I was told to take the battery out overnight, then drive like a loony when I put it back for a few days? seemed crazy to me but it worked!! The car performance changed dramatically? Something to do with the on board computer adjusting to the way its driven, so I was told..

Your Diane was-is in lovely nick, but I prefer the DS, thats a super looking car.. And you are right about the ZX, I can lose mine in a crowd of two!! And often do!
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[Kowalski]

Strange things cars wiv ECU's .. The Accord drove like a snail till I was told to take the battery out overnight, then drive like a loony when I put it back for a few days? seemed crazy to me but it worked!! The car performance changed dramatically? Something to do with the on board computer adjusting to the way its driven, so I was told..

I've heard of other petrol cars doing that, if you run on 95 octane and then change to 97 (e.g. changing from unleaded to super unleaded) some cars seem to need the ECU reset otherwise they won't advance the ignition and give you the extra power and fuel economy that the better fuel can give.

The Rover 600 is based upon that particular generation of Accord, they're mechanically identical the differences are mostly cosmetic. The diesel that that generation of Accord gets is the very same 'L' series diesel found in the 600 and that appeared in the Freelander before the BMW derived "TD4" came along. I was looking at the Rover some years ago because of that diesel engine, at the time I was suprised at the difference in price between the Rover and the Honda, considering they're mechanically identical, unless you get a Rover petrol engine....

[uhn113x]

Ello Michael!! (uhn113x) Yep.. yep.. it did belong to a carpenter called Andy!! how the heck do you know that???? You know every car in the UK personally??

Only a few, James, but you did tell us he was called Burg-Andy!

Strange things cars wiv ECU's .. The Accord drove like a snail till I was told to take the battery out overnight[...]

Better if it was a Tin Snail!

Your Dyane was-is in lovely nick, but I prefer the DS, thats a super looking car.. And you are right about the ZX, I can lose mine in a crowd of two!! And often do!
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Joyce's Dyane (the eponymous UHN 113X) is a sort of apples vs pears to the Deesse - better mpg, takes less room in car parks, nearly as comfortable and easier to maintain.
Not quite a magic carpet ride, though, and not as sexy!
The 16ft x 6ft LHD DS is not the thing to whizz around curly narrow roads or towns - she is made for travelling hundreds of relaxing miles on motorways.