Hi All..
some weeks ago I began the large job of respraying my camper van. I managed to get about 6 coats on, in reasonble weather. The first 3 coats were not good, the thinners wasn't high gloss, and I think the paint was drying before it got to the van...
anyway, to cut a long story short, getting the paint to look remotely good is proving hard... Are there any short cuts, to get around the problem off taking short cuts in the first place ?
What I am doing, is using the following grades of Wet/Dry (120,240,400,800,1200) and then compound and then T-cut.. The scratches are still there after all of that... should i start again with a lower grade of W/D paper? is there anything else i can do to speed up the process.. I have an electric polisher, but this is not really doing anything nearly as well as I can do by hand...
any advice appreciated... I am doing all of this outdoors (under cover) in the evenings .. not nice...
The front and back of Van are looking pretty good, the sides remain...
John g
wet/ dry and polishing advice...
Moderator: RichardW
have you used all of these grades of paper since the final coat of paint,as what you should have done was 800/or 1200 wet and dry on the final paint surface useing it wet with soap,then buff it with compound,this all dose depend on what the final surface was like,you might find the beast way to go about it will be rub it down with 800 then give it a couple of more coats of paint taking a bit more care and time to get it right
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
- demag
- (Donor 2016)
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2006 Toyota Prius T4 Gen 2. - x 102
Right then,
Cellulose is a beautiful paint if you know what you're doing. If its your first time (cellulose virgin, the mind boggles!) then it can be tricky. It took me many years to be able to get a quality finish with cellulose.
These days its two pack that has taken over as the professionals choice. That is a paint and hardener system. It's relatively quick, dries to a gloss and can be baked. The downside is it contains isocyanates (I think the spellings right, its been a long time). Basically it will poison you without a decent ventilated mask as it produces a type of mustard gas. If you leave your gear dirty it will dry solid like a two pack glue and render your spraygun scrap!
So here are a few tips for cellulose.
1, Any cellulose thinners will do but try to get a slow drying one.
2, To get the perfect mix you need a No.4 Ford flow cup! The easy way is to mix it and use a clean metal spatula or clean screwdriver to stir. If the mix dribbles off the stirrer like water in broken droplets then its too thin, it needs more paint. If it runs off in a steady stream like condensed milk then its too thick! You want it to run off in a steady stream then break into a few drops at the end. That will be about the right mix.
3, If you can get a small bottle of anti silicone add 6 drops per litre of mixed paint, it helps deal with any local paint reactions. Thats another point, cellulose is very fussy and cleanliness is imperative (the car body not your armpits )
4, If possible use 40psi with a good compressor.
5, Cellulose dries VERY quickly and that is one of the main reasons for a finish looking dull or dusty.
6, Hold the gun square to the panel (horizontally and vertically) approx 6 inches away. When you spray don't "fan" the gun. This will cause uneven coverage. Move your hand and arm parallel to the panel. If you're doing it right, it will hurt cos its not natural!
7, Do one panel at a time. Move slowly starting at the top of each panel left to right. Start the next stroke at the right and move back left under the first stroke but recovering the bottom third of the previous stroke. Don't start and stop on the panel you are painting, go beyond the edges so as not to get a build up and consequent runs.
8, Be smooooth. Watch the paint where it hits the panel, this is known as the "wet edge". If it looks dry or dull then slow down, if it looks like it might sag and run then speed up. Only slightly either way. The skill comes in keeping the wet edge constant, nice gloss but not too full.
120 w/d is way too coarse. This is normally used for roughing out filler. If you need to rub down between coats make sure the paint is dry enough first. If its not quite dry the paint will ball up and clog the paper. Leave it longer. Use light strokes, same direction as the gun with plenty of warm water and soap to lube the paper. If the water runs off your elbow in a steady stream you're doing ok! If you sand in circles by hand chances are you will see swirls in the finish. 800, 1000, 1200 are about right.
Cellulose does not like the cold and if you spray outdoors the paint might retain the thinners and take forever to dry. Also if its damp you can get a "bloom" on the paint. This looks like fine condensation and can be a pain to get rid of and will keep coming back. Don't compound or t cut until you are happy with the finish.
The answer to your question? No, there are no short cuts! Preparation is everything.
Good luck I hope it goes well.
Cellulose is a beautiful paint if you know what you're doing. If its your first time (cellulose virgin, the mind boggles!) then it can be tricky. It took me many years to be able to get a quality finish with cellulose.
These days its two pack that has taken over as the professionals choice. That is a paint and hardener system. It's relatively quick, dries to a gloss and can be baked. The downside is it contains isocyanates (I think the spellings right, its been a long time). Basically it will poison you without a decent ventilated mask as it produces a type of mustard gas. If you leave your gear dirty it will dry solid like a two pack glue and render your spraygun scrap!
So here are a few tips for cellulose.
1, Any cellulose thinners will do but try to get a slow drying one.
2, To get the perfect mix you need a No.4 Ford flow cup! The easy way is to mix it and use a clean metal spatula or clean screwdriver to stir. If the mix dribbles off the stirrer like water in broken droplets then its too thin, it needs more paint. If it runs off in a steady stream like condensed milk then its too thick! You want it to run off in a steady stream then break into a few drops at the end. That will be about the right mix.
3, If you can get a small bottle of anti silicone add 6 drops per litre of mixed paint, it helps deal with any local paint reactions. Thats another point, cellulose is very fussy and cleanliness is imperative (the car body not your armpits )
4, If possible use 40psi with a good compressor.
5, Cellulose dries VERY quickly and that is one of the main reasons for a finish looking dull or dusty.
6, Hold the gun square to the panel (horizontally and vertically) approx 6 inches away. When you spray don't "fan" the gun. This will cause uneven coverage. Move your hand and arm parallel to the panel. If you're doing it right, it will hurt cos its not natural!
7, Do one panel at a time. Move slowly starting at the top of each panel left to right. Start the next stroke at the right and move back left under the first stroke but recovering the bottom third of the previous stroke. Don't start and stop on the panel you are painting, go beyond the edges so as not to get a build up and consequent runs.
8, Be smooooth. Watch the paint where it hits the panel, this is known as the "wet edge". If it looks dry or dull then slow down, if it looks like it might sag and run then speed up. Only slightly either way. The skill comes in keeping the wet edge constant, nice gloss but not too full.
120 w/d is way too coarse. This is normally used for roughing out filler. If you need to rub down between coats make sure the paint is dry enough first. If its not quite dry the paint will ball up and clog the paper. Leave it longer. Use light strokes, same direction as the gun with plenty of warm water and soap to lube the paper. If the water runs off your elbow in a steady stream you're doing ok! If you sand in circles by hand chances are you will see swirls in the finish. 800, 1000, 1200 are about right.
Cellulose does not like the cold and if you spray outdoors the paint might retain the thinners and take forever to dry. Also if its damp you can get a "bloom" on the paint. This looks like fine condensation and can be a pain to get rid of and will keep coming back. Don't compound or t cut until you are happy with the finish.
The answer to your question? No, there are no short cuts! Preparation is everything.
Good luck I hope it goes well.
Dave
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
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thanks Malcolm...
the finish was so bad... it was like blue sand stuck all over the van after coat 3 .. unfortunatley i was up against the clock and didnt sand it down so even though the next 3 coats were much better (good thinners), the damage was done..
so.. to get the surface back to smooth involves removing most of the paint..
anyway, what i tried tonight was just to take a small part of van.. go back to 120 and after each grade, use spotlights to see into the scratches and pits... i made sure I only sanded horizontally, that way, anything left that wasn't a horizontal scratch could be identified..
I repeated until 800 grade and its looking promising.. a lot of effort mind..
The front and back have come up quite well considering. just want the sides to be the same..
I think elbow grease is my punishment for my first ever [quick] respray...
the finish was so bad... it was like blue sand stuck all over the van after coat 3 .. unfortunatley i was up against the clock and didnt sand it down so even though the next 3 coats were much better (good thinners), the damage was done..
so.. to get the surface back to smooth involves removing most of the paint..
anyway, what i tried tonight was just to take a small part of van.. go back to 120 and after each grade, use spotlights to see into the scratches and pits... i made sure I only sanded horizontally, that way, anything left that wasn't a horizontal scratch could be identified..
I repeated until 800 grade and its looking promising.. a lot of effort mind..
The front and back have come up quite well considering. just want the sides to be the same..
I think elbow grease is my punishment for my first ever [quick] respray...
- demag
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 1441
- Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 05:03
- Location: Black Country, aye it ar kid.
- My Cars: "H" Citroen Bx Tgs Automatic.
2006 Toyota Prius T4 Gen 2. - x 102
Thats ok, but absolute minimum of 600 w/d between coats. All you are doing is fighting yourself.
You could always finish it with a couple of coats of laquer but it needs to be done while the previous coat is still tacky. In other words ideally you need a coat of paint and within 15mins a laquer coat and within 15mins another laquer coat. So very intensive.
How many coats have you got on now?
You could always finish it with a couple of coats of laquer but it needs to be done while the previous coat is still tacky. In other words ideally you need a coat of paint and within 15mins a laquer coat and within 15mins another laquer coat. So very intensive.
How many coats have you got on now?
Dave
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
you must not use any thing courser than 600 then when trying to recover a paint surface,other wise you will never get rid of the scratches,how long did you leave between coats,normaly on old good paint surface to be repainted i would only got to maybe 400,but if you are primming the surface as well go to 240,these should be the coursest grades for either of these stages
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
- demag
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 1441
- Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 05:03
- Location: Black Country, aye it ar kid.
- My Cars: "H" Citroen Bx Tgs Automatic.
2006 Toyota Prius T4 Gen 2. - x 102
Doesn't sound too bad then. Just check each panel one at a time. If you have no paint left be very careful sanding. You don't want to go through to underneath. If it still needs w/d I would definitely be using 800 MINIMUM now. Preferably 1000 and if necessary finish with 1200.
Don't be too fussy now with odd scratches if they are small. You won't see them on the finished article. Take time with the compound and t cut to a nice gloss. There, all done
Don't use silicon polish for a week or two. Let it all harden and settle down first.
Don't be too fussy now with odd scratches if they are small. You won't see them on the finished article. Take time with the compound and t cut to a nice gloss. There, all done
Don't use silicon polish for a week or two. Let it all harden and settle down first.
Dave
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.