Activas getting rarer by the week 'thanks' to ebay...RANT:-(

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bxbodger
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Post by bxbodger »

If Activas were worth any money at all it wouldn't happen-enthusiasts would buy them.BUT-absolutely nobody wants them so the market decides, and if they're worth more as bits than as a whole then so be it.

You, I, or anyone else is just as welcome to bid and then save them-but we don't.

You get this a lot with classics-people moan all the time in the Triumph world about saveable 2000's or2.0/2.5PI saloons being broken up so the engines and overdrive boxes can find their way into GT6s, Vitesses, or to turn Spits into sixfires, but the fact remains they were most likely bought on the 'bay, open to all.

It's the same with banger racing-big 60's built Farina saloons are STILL finding their way onto the oval-flat cappers moan like hell about it but don't buy them- the fact is that there are still more around than people who want to restore them, and the banger boys paid the money and bought them.
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Post by andmcit »

bxbodger wrote:If Activas were worth any money at all it wouldn't happen-enthusiasts would buy them.BUT-absolutely nobody wants them so the market decides, and if they're worth more as bits than as a whole then so be it.

You, I, or anyone else is just as welcome to bid and then save them-but we don't.
Yes I know - that's a fair point. I HAVE genuinely 'saved' a very nice FCSH Xm 2.0 i turbo from such a fate by winning it on ebay [the seller actually told me the runner up bidder intended scrapping the car!] and I missed one of these Activa's by minutes from the time the auction finished when I was happy to bid a lot more ££'s.

Let's not go into 'why not bid early and forget about it ' = a mugs game that course of action - I know, I've got 1000+ completed transactions on ebay by finding out things the hard way.

Quite a bit physically needs doing to my Activa BUT, and this is a big but, I WILL NOT SCRAP OR SELL MINE - it's the right spec/colour, mileage and history and I love it. Mine doesn't need much ££'s spending - probably time is the key element I'm short of at the moment - It's now near the front of my que of cars/jobs to fix next as I've just completed my CX GTi Turbo2, but dammit, I'd like to drive an Activa NOW and get my 'fix' as it's been a while since it was last allowed out!

My initial point of this whole thread was not to have a go at the guys ripping the car's apart, although in truth I find it hard not to want to, but to draw the attention of the Citroen enthusiasts on the forum to the situation - especially as a lot of you guys run and seem to like Xantiae!

Wise up and get one NOW if you've fancied one, before the demand for their innards outstrips the supply of them. Yes, they're probably among the cheapest of all the Xantia range around at the moment which is why they're a superb bargain for those that can properly appreciate what they're all about.

Sadly, the whip the engine out and throw away the rest fraternity literally don't know what they're missing...

Andrew
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Post by bxbodger »

Really then it works in your favour these cars being scrapped! The engine's the unimportant bit- they can be kept going indefinately. If you still have an Activa in 20 years time and the motors shot a rebore and crankgrind will fix it, it won't be a problem, but the springy bits will.

The IMPORTANT bits, i.e. all the struts, etc, will now be available from these scrappers for next to nothing, you'll be able to stash a lot of this stuff away to meet future needs.

An interseting case in point here is the Austin Princess- scrapped by the thousand, but anyone with the forsight to stash away a few of the standard spec four-pot calipers (yes, they really did have them :shock: )is now sitting on a gold mine, these fetch prices in the hundreds from people in classic racing circles- they bolt straight onto the Triumph swivel hub, which was used on a lot of sixties sportsters: Lotus Elan/Europa/Elite/Eclat for example, and umpteen kit cars.

Buy those struts now........because in 10 years time you won't be able to find a single one.... :wink:
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Post by andmcit »

bxbodger wrote:Buy those struts now........because in 10 years time you won't be able to find a single one.... :wink:
That'd be a good idea! Again I know what you're saying. Well, that's how my attention was drawn to this whole thing in the first instance. I asked a guy about the front/rear ram/strut and he didn't have a clue!. More to the point he didn't want to know or 'give a monkeys' anyway when I tried to explain what I wanted off him.

Like a magpie, he was only interested in the tinsel - the radio/multi changer, alloys, and at a push the seats and had actually thrown the bodyshell away to the hiab man as he didn't have any space to have it lying around - he must have spent all of 2 hours taking the easy stuff off after he'd removed the engine... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I'm not going to condone this onerous practice by actually making THEM money to pay for/break even their 'project'...

If people didn't buy cheap car radios with no questions asked, there wouldn't be scum smashing windows thieving them. Same with ivory and tiger pelts etc etc...

Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 15 Aug 2006, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by deian »

talking about insurance too.... you got to ask how many boyracers have modified cars and not declared it, a guy i work with has just passed his test, and has a W reg vw polo 1.0, standard they came with 14 maybe 15 inch alloys, but nooo he wanted 18 alloys, a week after he went into a corner and smashed a corner of it, this was the day after i advised him that putting such big wheels with such low profile tyres (think shopping trolley) looks silly on such a small car, but it's also dangerous, i also advised him to tell the insurance company the day before he crashed, luckily for him his dad is a mechanic and will fix his car for him for free plus over £1500 of parts, he now drives a k reg golf 1.4, he's already changed the rear lights and backbox.

and here are people like you and me who pay enough for comprehensive insurance... sadly it all goes to the money pot in the sky where it pays for legal fees (and such) of the uninsured drivers when they kill someone!
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Post by sub42 »

Exactly.

They can afford several thousands of pounds in conversion costs, but they won't declare it on the old proposal form. It's a simple case of 'new alloys and backbox increases girly magnet appeal' and 'I won't pay for what I can't make tangible, ie insurance'.

It's not seen as a sin to mod the car, and therefore change it's capabilities, and not to disclose that information. It's the 'Cavalier 2.0 turbo in a Nova' mob that really are lunatics. I have seen first hand the results of one of those conversions. Firstly, the power unit weighs twice what the standard unit does, if you include the six speed box. So, you immediately have a requirement for a change of spring rate and bump and rebound settings on the dampers. you also need a higher rated anti roll bar and so on. The problem is that most people that mod cars don't look that far down the mechanical chain.

The instance that I gave you, of the turbo lump into a Nova almost always results in the inner wings breaking away from the bulkhead! You hear stories like "Yeah, just changed up to third at 90mph and it went like crunch, and the steering went a bit funny....."

Nope, I won't accept that all car modifiers are capable of engineering out potential dangers, and I also believe that a high proportion
purposely ignore the brakes and suspension and other safety critical components in order to save money

If it isn't policed, then how can it be safe. If you try building an extention on your house, it is checked by an inspector. If you want to do any electrical work that is major, you have to get a qualified and certified electrician to do it for you. You can't drive either of those down the road at 140mph, and if you tried breaking the rules on them, it would get knocked down, in the case of the building, or locked off and condemned, in the case of the dodgy electrical work. Next time you see a modified car, just ask yourself the question, has he really declared all those mods. In reality, tha answer is probrably the big N O. Best give them all a wide berth methinks. Can those 17" wheels fitted to a car that originally wore 13" wheels really cope with the changes in increase load angles and torque loadings on those bearings.....what about the increase in the unsprung weight of the wheels.....what about the lowering springs that are fitted to old knackered shocks that are leaking oil and would'nt damp anything more than a ripple. Did they do a full suspension and steering geometry check once they were fitted, just in case something was a bit out. Too many questions I think, therefore its exactly as the insurance companies see them. Unprofessionally modified cars are seen as an unquantifiable subject, and are therefore a liability.
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Post by andmcit »

http://tinyurl.com/k47d7

"...then I got hold of a citroen xantia activa 2l turbo with only 86k on the clock which was profesionaly fitted into the 205..."

:evil: :x :x :x :x :x
Grrrr, Can't spell very well either...

"One other bonus is the logbook is still regestered as a 1.4 so cheap £100 a year tax. Its not the best car body wise..."

Sadly, I rest my case...

:x :x :x :x :x

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Post by Ross_K »

What a sh*tbox.
The bonnet sits slightly high on one side
Hmm, I wonder why that is... :shock:
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Post by bxbodger »

DVLA do indeed have it as a petrol car-

Date of Liability 01 08 2007
Date of First Registration 01 01 1988
Year of Manufacture 1988
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1360CC
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type Petrol
Export Marker Not Applicable
Vehicle Status SORN Not Due
Vehicle Colour RED
Vehicle Type Approval
The information contained on this page is correct at the time of enquiry.
Vehicle Excise Duty Rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £60.50
12 Months Rate £110.00

The fact that the seller has never informed DVLA of the change, and has most likely insured it as a 1.4 as well, would indicate a degree of slackness in other areas- I would'nt touch it with a bargepole.

And selling because of a baby on the way-my a**e!!! His last three items sold on the'bay were.........newborn baby clothes.......
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Post by Clogzz »

andmcit wrote:Like a magpie, he was only interested in the tinsel
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Post by tomsheppard »

A lot of unjustified ranting from people who haven't put their money where their mouths are. If anybody wants to build their own special (And insure it, naturally; that's a different argument,) and buys something unloved like a GTI16 BX then good for them. Nobody wants the Xantia Activa because it is an overcomplicated answer to a question that nobody asked. Would you buy one if you had 1000 to spend and were not a member of this forum? No. There are many better cars out there for most folk. Fast cars are all about snobbery, If it were generally known that Lotus designed the BX16V and it came with Lotus badges on it, we wouldn't be able to afford them. Citroen isn't where you look for fast cars so they get used up to make specials because there are too many Citroens around that nobody else wants.
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Post by andmcit »

I'll stand by my original rant - my point of the original thread here was to draw everyone's attention to the clearly sad economic reality that these rare cars are worth more as engine donors. Buy one whilst you can.

Now, this leads to the natural jump in attention to the convertors of these projects. I fully accept as with everything else there'll be good and bad ends of the scale.

My follow up posts highlight my reservations about the safety and more particularly the legality of these conversions and I feel sub42 makes an excellent point about the real world comparison of a house conversion being properly highly regulated and policed after a bit of DIY...

TBH I do find it highly tempting to 'have a go' at the Max power Revs fraternity where it's all about the 0-60 and donuts rather than comfort, durability or safety but wont as I've already said it's a case of whatever light's your candle etc, even if I don't agree with it all.

I do feel proper regulation is needed however, as we all know that the MOT test is only a saftey net if the car actually goes near a testing station in the first place and even then it's largely a static test where dynamic failings like s**t handling and zero wheel deflection aren't going to be an issue until the car gets back onto the road...

My blood boils though when ebayers like the guy with the 1.4 petrol [wink wink] are so blatant about their dodges and all for a car they themself admit is tatty. FFS, what's the point? They don't even know what the Activa does in their ignorance!
:evil: :x :x

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Activas getting rarer by the week 'thanks' to ebay...RANT:-(

Post by Gregg1100 »

Hi All,
Back in the late 60`s and early 70`s, I used to HATE people who would rip decent cars--with 200% more character than cars of today-apart, then taken them to banger racing. All the Westminsters, Jags , Wolseley`s etc, wrecked, for no purpose at all.
The amount of Bx`s in scrap yards with naff all wrong with them is also criminal--probably put there by frightened owners, after being told that a rear radius arm was shot , with a hefty repair charge imminent.
My son bought an S reg, Mk2 XantiaHDi90 SX for £450. The owner was told that the power steering was naff, and rear ram had gone. The power steering had a return pipe fallen out, probably sucking air. Put it back. Bingo. All fixed . Rear ram stopped leaking on it`s own accord as well.
Probably fear and ignorance is behind all these good cars going to the knackers yard so early. Fear of a big bill, and ignorance on behalf the morons who feed that fear because of total incompetance and greed.
Rant over. :(
Regards,
Greg

90 Kawa EN 500 A1- was running---now dead again
04 Kawa GPZ 500 E10 -alive and well.
54 Fiat Punto 1.2 Dynamic

Old Xantias- 16v 2litre 1997 VSX, 2 x 1993 TD Lx, S2 SX 1.9TD
Old Bx's--3 x 1.9 D, 1x 1.6 Auto, 1 x 1.9 GTi, 1 x 1.9 TZS
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Post by weety »

andmcit wrote:I'll stand by my original rant - my point of the original thread here was to draw everyone's attention to the clearly sad economic reality that these rare cars are worth more as engine donors. Buy one whilst you can.

Now, this leads to the natural jump in attention to the convertors of these projects. I fully accept as with everything else there'll be good and bad ends of the scale.

My follow up posts highlight my reservations about the safety and more particularly the legality of these conversions and I feel sub42 makes an excellent point about the real world comparison of a house conversion being properly highly regulated and policed after a bit of DIY...

TBH I do find it highly tempting to 'have a go' at the Max power Revs fraternity where it's all about the 0-60 and donuts rather than comfort, durability or safety but wont as I've already said it's a case of whatever light's your candle etc, even if I don't agree with it all.

I do feel proper regulation is needed however, as we all know that the MOT test is only a saftey net if the car actually goes near a testing station in the first place and even then it's largely a static test where dynamic failings like s**t handling and zero wheel deflection aren't going to be an issue until the car gets back onto the road...

My blood boils though when ebayers like the guy with the 1.4 petrol [wink wink] are so blatant about their dodges and all for a car they themself admit is tatty. FFS, what's the point? They don't even know what the Activa does in their ignorance!
:evil: :x :x

Andrew
i found an MOT website and posted on the forum there about it

http://motester.co.uk/forums/view_topic ... jump_to=80

so having a different engine doesnt matter for the MOT test.......

also posted on the police forum but no replies yet

http://www.police-recruitment.com/one2/ ... 364#175364
M reg xantia 1.9td 266000 miles expired
R reg xantia 1.9td 186000 miles veggy power expired
L reg renault clio 1.9D 91000 miles expired at 107000 miles
x reg clio 15d veggy power bottom of the car rotted through
06 c5 2.2 TD wowser so much power and comfort 160000 miles
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Post by weety »

interesting reply on the police forum

Also the people who carryout these amount of work on their cars are the ones who spend a fortune insuring, servicing, taxing and looking after the cars. The people you should be concerned about are the ones with no licence, tax, insurance, MOT, car seats for children and using their mobile phones whilst driving.

Just because something is one off does not mean it is cheap or inferior, and if it has been especially engineered to cope with the extra stresses whats the problem!


and the mot site

There is no reason that this car shouldn't be MOT tested the same as any other.

When logging it on to the MOT computer, the information supplied fom DVLA would simply be corrected.

Being a 1988 car, it would only require a basic emissions test, and a retardation test for the brake efficiency unless the revised vehicle weight is known.
M reg xantia 1.9td 266000 miles expired
R reg xantia 1.9td 186000 miles veggy power expired
L reg renault clio 1.9D 91000 miles expired at 107000 miles
x reg clio 15d veggy power bottom of the car rotted through
06 c5 2.2 TD wowser so much power and comfort 160000 miles
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