ESP, VSA
Moderator: RichardW
Cars are more technical and complex than they used to be, and this happens due to progress.
While the drivers appear to be progressing in the opposite way, in effect they are dumbing down.
In general people are more stressed than they ever used to be.
So they are in a hurry drive like a TW#T, and end up with their poor driving ability needing technical assistance from the car, from the ABS ASR ESP etc. To get them out of the dangerous situations they put themselves in, with a car that should be made to handle properly before all this technology serves to cover up poor basic handling, and bad driving.
While the drivers appear to be progressing in the opposite way, in effect they are dumbing down.
In general people are more stressed than they ever used to be.
So they are in a hurry drive like a TW#T, and end up with their poor driving ability needing technical assistance from the car, from the ABS ASR ESP etc. To get them out of the dangerous situations they put themselves in, with a car that should be made to handle properly before all this technology serves to cover up poor basic handling, and bad driving.
Anything that helps a driver to avoid losing control has my vote.
There will always be bad drivers around, most of whom think they drive very well, but these people are never going to spend money learning new skills.
Good drivers may like spending a few quid to have a go on skid pans etc, but they are in the minority, and every real skid has its own problems, in my experience, it's usualy lack of room to perform a "text book" correction, so you have to think fast and 'wing it' not always with the required results!!
So back to the original question.. YES.. I would vote to have it made compulsory in all cars...
There will always be bad drivers around, most of whom think they drive very well, but these people are never going to spend money learning new skills.
Good drivers may like spending a few quid to have a go on skid pans etc, but they are in the minority, and every real skid has its own problems, in my experience, it's usualy lack of room to perform a "text book" correction, so you have to think fast and 'wing it' not always with the required results!!
So back to the original question.. YES.. I would vote to have it made compulsory in all cars...
James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.
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- Posts: 1260
- Joined: 01 May 2004, 19:49
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: Current - Slightly modified 2016 Pug 308 Puretech 130 Allure
Past:
2003 - 206 GLX TU3JP & 206 SE ET3JP4
1995 - 405 Executive XU10J2
1996 - 406 GLX XU10J4R
1994 - 405 GTX XU10J2 - x 1
Ive owned a 406 & the handling is total S***Efastandfurryous wrote:This is a bit off-topic, but still relevant:PowerLee wrote:Just think that there are forklift trucks out there that have been for years running much more high tech advanced CAN - BUS multiplex systems then anything PSA Peugeot Citroen have ever fitted to a car yet & they work just fine day in & day out.
You've made the point as to why they are still working though. They're more advanced, and undoubtedly better built/designed. The PSA multiplex system appears to be badly designed and cheaply manufactured, hence will be unreliable. After all... car manufacturers build their cars as cheaply as possible. A few pence saved here and there makes all the difference.
And Kowalski.... No electronics are going to improve the handling of a 405.. it's so unbelievably well balanced. PSA could do with going back 20 years and remembering what they used to produce.
I guarantee if you put a 405, 406 and 407 together, the 405 will outhandle the 406 and 407.
Ive also owned 2 x 405s & the handling on them is brilliant ( if you stick to original equipment shocks )
I was so shocked how bad it was after coming from a 405 that I had the suspension & steering checked over by 3 different garages, 2 of them Peugeot main dealers & there was never any fault found with it.
On one corner on my way to work I lost 30 mph corning speed in the 406 against what the 405 would take the corner at
Peugeot will never build a good handling car again, The 106, 205, 306 & 405 will stand out agaisnt the new cars.
Theres nothing wrong with CAN & multiplexing, If its done correctly
PSA Peugeot / Citroen should start using better electronic parts & wiring on the cars if they want to sort the electrical problems out