industry standards for technicians

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 13 Mar 2006, 10:24

pugxpert wrote:With regards to standards droping this will not happen.

Standards always drop. Look at the MCP/MCSE and the idiots that get that particular certification. Look at the rising pass rates on 'A' levels, look at the increase in the number of people getting degree level qualifications.

More people are passing the exams, if the standards were fixed more people would not be passing year on year. You can explain some of the increase in more people taking the exams and better teaching methods but not all of it the standards have fallen. I have first hand experience of seeing the standards fall. When I did 'A' levels we had the past papers to use to prepare ourselves for the upcoming exams. For physics, comparing the old papers with the new ones, they were pretty much the same topics and the same sorts of questions except that the difficult last part of each question wasn't there on the newer papers. The questions had been made easier and this was pointed out to use by the teaching staff at the time, they knew what was going on.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 13 Mar 2006, 10:45

fair point!! These tests are not written they are pratical assesments so i would have thought working pratices should remain the same. If standards drop then that would be like when you tighten a caliper bolt not using a torque wrench and just winding it up by hand.That type of standard can not drop???

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 13 Mar 2006, 11:18

pugxpert wrote:fair point!! These tests are not written they are pratical assesments so i would have thought working pratices should remain the same. If standards drop then that would be like when you tighten a caliper bolt not using a torque wrench and just winding it up by hand.That type of standard can not drop???

These practical tests are therefore in effect additional skills tests.

The fact is though, a technician has to pass a skills test to become a technician in the first place.

This is really a duplication of the skills test that many technicians would have taken previously, these tests were part of the City & Guilds training that every technician goes through, whether it's at City & Guilds 380 craft level, or 390 technicians level.

So, it's really a case of re-inventing the wheel.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 13 Mar 2006, 16:49

may be it is aimed at techs that had training 15 years ago? back then they would not have learnt about aircon,engine management,can bus systems ,abs etc..... most of the assesments cover these topics.

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 14 Mar 2006, 11:33

pugxpert wrote:may be it is aimed at techs that had training 15 years ago? back then they would not have learnt about aircon,engine management,can bus systems ,abs etc..... most of the assesments cover these topics.

Well with regard to the subjects/topics that you have mentioned.

* Air conditioning has been around for many years, there are recent environmental concerns over the refrigerant used, and the control of the air conditioning has become more complex. I.E. climate control, dual systems on bigger vehicles, independently adjustable temperatures for the driver and passenger etc.

* Engine management has been around for many years, but has become more complex recently. There has been the ability to diagnose, and investigate these systems for some time.

* ABS has been around for many years, & has also become more complex, and has found other uses in stability control, and also power management/wheelspin control.

* The advent of the CAN BUS control systems has allowed the above items, and many others to become more complex, and the opportunity for better more precise operation, and diagnostic investigation.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 14 Mar 2006, 12:34

ok its a load of bollocks is that what you want me to say??
we shall have to wait and see! still think its a good idea,lets have another look in 2years and see who's right??

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 14 Mar 2006, 13:28

pugxpert wrote:ok its a load of bollocks is that what you want me to say??
we shall have to wait and see! still think its a good idea,lets have another look in 2years and see who's right??

The thing is the IMI has been around for some time, and the fact is that prior to this technicians have not joined this, and other trade bodies as they have not felt the need to do so, either due to being lazy, or just not seeing the point in it, if they are staying within the dealership that they have been in for years. If they were to be paid more money for being a member then maybe they would join up, or if they were to leave the company, then it would help in getting another job.

So, if this new system is voluntary then it will have a very slow take up if at all.

Yes, given time we will see what happens, but after what's happened previously I wouldn't expect too much.

pugxpert

Are you currently a member of the IMI, or the SOE ?

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 14 Mar 2006, 13:38

yes in IMI. all peugeot dealers have to have at least 2 techs by the end of the year at ata level for diagnostic level.all mercedes master techs are ata .i think manufacturers are pushing for it ford and vauxhall as well

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 14 Mar 2006, 14:03

If Mercedes technicians are qualified to this standard, it demonstrates that it must be a load of bollocks then. I have yet to meet one that could be trusted with a clothes peg, let alone a spanner.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 14 Mar 2006, 14:55

You must have had a bad experience then? There are some good ones out there.

Stewart(oily) · Post by **Stewart(oily)** » 15 Mar 2006, 14:43

When I was serving my apprenticeship in the 70s the main dealer guys were the worst of the lot, they just seemed to see it as a job, most of them not even owning a toolbox whereas the ones from multi make garages already had a breadth of experience gained from practicall repairs on a range of older, worn vehicles. main dealer mechanics seem to spend most of their time fitting brake pads and topping up washers anyway, the vehicles are new, modern vehicles are very good generally with long service intervals and breakdowns a rarity, the electonics have become vastly more complex but solutions seem to come from plugging in the fault code reader or laptop and fitting the replacement unit the machine tells you to, regulation? I recently drove a company vehicle away from a branch of A*S where they would not fit new brake pads because one side had worn more than the other "It may have had a siezed piston mate" I was told, I pushed the pistons back in with my bare hands and told him they werent siezed, so they put the worn out pads back in, replaced the wheels and i went on my way without effective brakes, mind you the guy did use a torque wrench to tighten my wheels, i expect he had his NVQ though

Stewart

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 15 Mar 2006, 16:56

modern day cars are more complex ,but when they go wrong you need to know the systems ,water in electronic units is the worse you would not beleive the greif that causes and how long it takes to find.i see maim dealers having 2 parts to a workshop one side doing routine servicing and the other doing diagnostic work.

French Car Forum

industry standards for technicians

Another Skills Test !

Complexity !

A Question Of Time ?