industry standards for technicians

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 10 Mar 2006, 08:04

did you know there are industry standards being rolled out for automotive technicians? Its a bit like corgi register for our plumber but for cars.Each technician will be assesed for skils at 3 posible levels,service,diagnostic and master technicians.with modern day cars getting more complex i see this is a good idea as far too many people work on cars that dont know what they are doing and it becomes dangerous!!! whats your views??
have a look at www.automotivetechnician.org.uk

406 V6 · Post by **406 V6** » 10 Mar 2006, 09:34

Thumbs up!

Even yesterday as my C5 is at the stealer for fitting a new floor carpet and sponge, and replacing the windshield washer pump, the guy there told me that the pumps going out so quickly "must be of the HDI powerbox that knackers the electrical system. I'm sure it's that, 'cos the radio [aftermarket] turns on each time one opens the doors and turns off after a few minutes. You can confirm with the electrician[actually a smart guy]"

I believe everyone knows the BSI wakes up the system every time a door opens and resumes to stand-by if after around 2 minutes there is innactivity....
They should do the same my ways, too!

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 10 Mar 2006, 11:16

A complete waste of time if its anything like corgi- Corgi is basically just a trade association with political clout.

Before corgi there were good gas fitters and bad ones- there are still good gas fitters and bad ones, but they are now all corgi registered, and charge more because of the building regs insistence on corgi.

You only have to watch rogue traders to see corgi registered fitters in action.................

Fixing cars isn't rocket science and there's nothing difficult about it- the only thing thats REALLY changed in the last 50 years or so is the adoption of electronics, and that can be dealt with by manufacturers giving SYSTEM SPECIFIC training on specific systems- not some wooly general qualification.

Looking at the web site, you can see that its bascally aimed at getting yet another trade association in place- give them a year or two, and they'll be recomending that cars leave the factory with sealed bonnets, with only ATA members being permitted to open them by law....................I hate this sort of thing, its the thin end of yet another nasty wedge!!!

And I would bet the average ATA member wouldn't have a clue whats going on under the bonnet of my 38 year old Triumph! Dynamo? Strombergs? Laycock overdrive? waassaat then? sorry mate, they were'nt covered on the 'accreditation' course!

Rant over!

Sturdybloke · Post by **Sturdybloke** » 10 Mar 2006, 13:01

Well put bxbodger. Its all part of the grand scheme to stop people from working on cars on the driveway/in the road. Infact my neighbour has a hisseyfit every time he sees me working on a car (every day) but as I keep telling him its my driveway that they are on so he can bugger off (well I put it a bit stronger than that in person

). And how did I manage to get from talking about cars to moaning about my neighbour???

ACTIVE8 · Post by **ACTIVE8** » 10 Mar 2006, 13:08

Hi pugxpert

Do you work at a main dealer ?

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 10 Mar 2006, 14:13

It is now illegal to drive your classic car in Italy and some parts of Germany. Once these have been taken off the road Europe wide, there will be no need to mend your own car so you can rely on the dealer to help you out for a very modest cost.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 12 Mar 2006, 16:57

I think this is a good concept !!

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 12 Mar 2006, 20:02

And it clearly teaches you to believe your own bullshit!
The skills of an ENGINEER take at least a decade's experience to learn.
Seven forty five minute exams? Try five two hour exams per year for five years. Probably with a pass percentage ABOVE room temperature. No, that is not enough to qualify you and in ten years' time you'll know that.
Your level of competence does not extend to mastery of written English yet!

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 12 Mar 2006, 20:48

Vehicle technicians are not engineers but do learn up to 4 years.These assesments are not training they are tests to check your working practices and knowledge.I have been in a main dealer for 18 years and i think my apprenticeship has served me well,and have seen more peugeot/citroen cars than you have had hot dinners!!

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 12 Mar 2006, 21:17

I have been in a main dealer for 18 years and i think my apprenticeship has served me well

So, if thats the case, as I'm sure it is, why do you feel that an organisation such as the ATA serves any purpose at all?

When the wifes Kia goes in for service, I want someone on the job who is trained by Kia in Kia systems, not someone with a wooly general ATA certificate-the whole thing reeks of NVQ's.

It is clearly a restrictive practices trade association, and absolutely nothing to do with standards of any kind!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 12 Mar 2006, 21:31

Obviously really useful - helps employers think they are training people properly - rather than actually developing some expertise themselves.

Interestingly when I do a search for an approved mechanic using my postcode I get 10 results. I'm in Southampton, one result is for the Isle of Wight and one is for the Maserati dealer in Lyndhurst.

I suppose some education for some must be a good thing.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 12 Mar 2006, 21:34

I think it will seperate good technicians from the cowboys in this world.We shall just have to wait and see.you can still get your kia trained guy to work on your car but as a bonus would you prefer one which has passed this assesment? He may work in a kia garage and be kia trained but is he any good?? I have seen people in main dealers i would not let loose on a wheel barrow.Regards...

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 12 Mar 2006, 22:47

This is a nice initiative on the face of it, but it will turn into a farce.

The first thing that will happen is that the standards will be set high, so few people pass the exam. Then you will get demand for people who have passed the exam, e.g. the main dealer must have all of its mechanics (or a proportion of them) certified. The garages will realise that they can't get a hold of enough staff so what do they do? Good mechanics don't just grow on trees, so the industry will put pressure on the examining body so that more people will pass, how do we get more people to pass?

Teaching people would take time and would be expensive, attracting more capable people into the industry would mean wages would have to go up and would take time too, so they'll go with option three which is lowering the standards. The end result will be that every mechanic will be certified competent or not and the qualification won't be worth the paper its printed on. Any qualification that is common to the point where anybody can get it is worthless, if anybody can get it what does it signify?

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 12 Mar 2006, 23:32

I'd return to my point above that fixing cars really isn't rocket science, and doesn't require much in the way of 'accreditation'- if anything, repairing the oily bits has become much easier over the last 20 years or so- hands up whose spent ages shimming a BL balljoint

!!

Mechanics just don't have to do this sort of thing anymore- the real problem areas aren't oily at all but in the electronic management systems, and this is where training should be specific to a manufacturers range, not general to everything.....and this training can only be provided by the manufacturer or system supplier.

So, I don't care if the Kia man hasn't got a clue about Toyota or Mercedes diesels, or whatever, all I want is that he knows the system thats under the bonnet of er'indoors's Carens, understands what the diagnostics mean, and can sort anything that arises without having to resort to box swapping.

When it comes to modern vehicle management systems, specific knowledge is worth much more than general knowledge, which is all an ATA accreditation can be based on.

pugxpert · Post by **pugxpert** » 13 Mar 2006, 08:03

I disagree and except that is your opinion.My point is the kia trained man that does not work on mercedes ,bmw or whatever maybe a complete idiot .I have seen it in main dealers .yes there are some good techs out there and some bad ones both working on the same brand ,trained to the same manufacturers standards.i know which one i would choose.With regards to standards droping this will not happen.all assesments are regulated by the institute of motor industry (IMI).