MIG welding

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RichardW
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Post by RichardW »

I've got the Practical Classics MIG welding book which is a good start, but I've been on an evening course. As always it's a case of 'not as easy as it looks'! The best thing is if you can get someone to show you and give you a bit of coaching, as at the beginning it's very frustrating when all you do it make holes, even if you think you are doing the same as last time when it worked OK :cry: Can't say more than practice, practice, practice. First time you get near the car, it's always difficult, as invariably it's a bit thin, upside down, back handed, can't see it etc etc! The MIG machine makers will supply a hand held mask, making you believe that you can weld one handed. Ignore this, and buy a proper flip mask - MIG is much, much easier two handed!

The basics is to set the power to make sure you are melting both sides of the weld, then set the correct wire speed so that the wire is melting at the right rate for the seam you are trying to lay down. When you get it right it settles down to a fast sizzle - often likened to bacon frying. Too much or two little wire and it will spit and pop. Too little power, and the weld won't penetrate, too much and it will burn through. Move too slow and it will burn through, too fast and it will sit on on top and not penetrate. Torch angle is critical as well - it needs to be at right angles to the weld (which usually means cranking your hand round, as the torch is really the wrong shape). And you need to get the right angle to the direction of the weld - ideally it should be right overhead, but do this and you can't see it, so you have to lay it back a bit - not too much or you'll lose the gas shield though. Distance of the torch from the work piece is also vital - too close and you just block the tip up and weld the shroud to the job, too far away and the wire wanders about and you lose the gas shroud. Still sound easy?? At least setting the gas flow is easy! By the time you've got all the variables right, you've got to the end of the job usually!

I have to disagree with BXbodger though - the moving fast is the wrong technique really, and is likely to lead to a surface weld with little penetration. You need to get enough power on the MIG to melt right through the thicker of the two sections you are trying to weld - and this usually means burning a hole if you try and weld the whole seam in one go. It's better to pulse the MIG (expensive machines will have a pulse timer built in for this) - you weld for just long enough to get the penetration, but before you burn through, then stop for a short while, then weld another short burst. If you watch the weld pool, you can see it just 'skin' over as it cools. If you re-start welding into this, you end up with a weld that looks as if it was laid down in one go, but gets good penetration without burning through. Trouble with cars is that usually you can't see the back, so can't tell if you've penetrated or not....

The reason that my welding of the Visa stalled is that I got into a difficult corner inside, and couldn't get it right, so got fed up. Need to get an auto dimming mask really - trouble is installing new kitchens and bathrooms got in the way this year. Next year. Next year!

Whereabouts are you Ralph? Maybe someone can give you a go with their machine so you can see what you are up against.

D'uh, Bradford I see....not near me then!
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Post by bxbodger »

have to disagree with BXbodger though - the moving fast is the wrong technique really
- I must have been a bit vague here!! What I meant was keeping the torch moving at an even speed fast enough to not blow holes-and it took me a long time to get this right ](*,) ! Its always hard to see what you are doing as you're usually lying awkwardly in the gutter on your back or side, and the torch movement tends to slow down(...and who hasn't then tried to fill the resulting holes with more weld..... :oops: ....it never works! )

Interesting that the practical classics book says keep the torch at ninety degrees- the book that came with my sip machine said push the torch along in the direction of the weld at about 60 degrees- ninety degrees is a lot easier though.

One thing I'd say though Ralph, is spend an extra few quid and get a machine with a non-permanant live torch, and a plug welding tip comes in handy as well!!!!Also, ignore the high wattages advertised -a low wattage, 30 or so, makes the machine a lot more useable, and you'll never need more than 120 for car use.

The thing with welding machines is that even if you hardly ever use it for welding panels on your car, they are still very useful for dealing with recalcitrant bearings, fixing garden gates, broken ironing boards, etc...........once you've got one, you'll wonder how you ever managed around the house without it..... :lol:
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Post by Kowalski »

MIG Welders are very different animals to arc welders, the latest ones have come along a very long way. The MIG welder I have access to is quite an expensive one (with big current and proper Euro type torch), it can detect how the weld is going and adjusts the current and wire feed speed. Weld penetration can depend on whether you've got the weld hot enough (if not you need to turn the current up) and it can depend on the type of gas you use, CO2 gives much better weld penetration than Argon.
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Post by fastandfurryous »

Kowalski wrote:CO2 gives much better weld penetration than Argon.
If only it were that simple.

CO2 is mainly used because it is cheap. It also give excessive weld spatter, and can produce a wide, flat weld bead. Argon is more expensive, but is a proper inert gas. It can be used pure, but can produce a cold weld.

Generally, in industrial welding, a 10-20% CO2 mix in argon is used, as this is the best compromise for cost, penetration, spatter etc.

All of this being relevant for mild steel only. When you start talking about Stainless, Aluminium or anything else, all the rules change.
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Post by wilkobob »

Got given an old SIP mig welder, which was broken. Repaired it myself, then tought myself how to use it. One think I think is a great benefit is an automatic mask, cheaply available on ebay (think mine was about 20 notes). This makes the whole job less stressful and a whole lot easier. I can weld car body work fairly well (ive done a fair bit) and have made myself a couple of trailers, one from a caravan chassis, with drop tail gate and ramps - I was well impressed. One from an old trailer chassis, and one from scratch. To say ive only had it just over a year, im doing well, and the only tuition ive had is watching discovery home and leisure on sky. I had however, used a much larger industrial one to make a tow bar for my old mondeo and my old astra. One tip, dont forget to turn the gas off when your done, ive wasted so many bottles due to forgetting to turn it off. Once you know how to weld, its a great trick to know. The better the welder, the better the weld when your done, mines only a cheapo thing, which doesnt do a brilliant job (although I can get a good finish) a more expensive one gives a better weld, with much less stress.
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Post by bxbodger »

dont forget to turn the gas off when your done
:oops: I also completely unscrew the regulator as well.....

I've got some fun weekends coming up- the inner wing of the BX needs doing before the MOT comes round in april, and I've got the inner and outer rear arches and lower rear wings on the Triumph to do as well- the repair panels are piling up in the shed!!!
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Post by tomsheppard »

As you will gather, it takes a certain knack. It is by no means difficult but if you want a couple of good basic tips: Make sure that your earth is good, make sure that all the metal you are welding is scrupulously clean, and finally, make sure that the bit you are fitting is a good fit to the parent metal. Take your time, Work out the most convenient way to approach the job; If putting the car on stands gives you easy access, then do that.
Above all, don't give up. It is a good skill to have and although proficiency takes time, it will be time well spent. Buy good kit, too. There are few cheap good welders, even on Ebay because the good stuff lasts a long time and holds its value.
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Post by weety »

and dont forget to disconnect the alternator (they dislike mig welding).............
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