I've been thinking of a little commuter again foa while and this put it to the front of my mind
Are we going to have a fuel shortage?
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Stinkwheel
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VisaGTi16v
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Looks like I might have to revert to cooking oil this weekend as I need to travel 200 miles. Ive not risked using it so far as I did a test with it (only about a fivers worth) and the car sounded completely different. More clattery like an Austin Maestro Deisel. I dont really know how injection systems work but surely pressures will increase as its so much thicker than deisel? It stank too, but oddly, when on the move things were quieter and acceleration was smoother. An altogether more organic driving experience. It was just louder when at idle, but quieter on the move.
Ive just been out to get some proper deisel after my last post- BP on the A6 on the way into Loughborough- No cars and plenty of fuel-at 99.9p per litre though. That reminds me- I saw an odd litle station the other day called something saver and the fuels were all about 82p-it was closed as it was late but ill have to find it again sometime. In contrast to that, I saw a station selling deisel at £1.02, unleaded at £1.06, and 4 star (actual stuff) at 89p!
It's 99.9 diesel here in n.w. Cumbria, and not noticed any panic as yet.
However, both here and in the Lake district have lately seen warplanes flying very low indeed, more so than usual, and doing what looked like some dummy attack runs complete with fast peel-away.....
Based on precedent, when that happens, war might be near. Syria is unlikely - the Russians might take the opportunity to showcase their latest surface to air missiles (field tests as they did with the Kornet AT against the USA's Abrams in Iraq). But as for Iran -- hmmmmm, since Yankee poodle Blair might have bought off their Chinese associates.
Whatever, reckon this week for us it's going to be laying in time for an emergency reserve of veggie oil from Lidle and Aldi ... how long does it keep?
However, both here and in the Lake district have lately seen warplanes flying very low indeed, more so than usual, and doing what looked like some dummy attack runs complete with fast peel-away.....
Based on precedent, when that happens, war might be near. Syria is unlikely - the Russians might take the opportunity to showcase their latest surface to air missiles (field tests as they did with the Kornet AT against the USA's Abrams in Iraq). But as for Iran -- hmmmmm, since Yankee poodle Blair might have bought off their Chinese associates.
Whatever, reckon this week for us it's going to be laying in time for an emergency reserve of veggie oil from Lidle and Aldi ... how long does it keep?
I don't think there will be a shortage, other than any caused by panic buying, there has been some queuing locally, but not a lot..
I find high oil prices a bit of a cleft stick, on the one hand its expensive for people to buy, on the other, maybe high oil prices will help to clean up our planet as people will use less?
We should make some new laws.. [:D] (1) To get all 4x4's off the road completely, make the only 4x4 allowed on the road a bog standard land Rover for farm use or similar work only.. (2) Make a minimum charge of £1,000 per person for any holiday air flights, (3) put a surcharge of £100,000 on every Leer jet taking off [;)].. (4) Allow people to run diesels on any used and cheap organic fuels they can find.. (5) Make people like John Travola owning Jumbo 707's (simply because they dont want to sit next to poor folk on a bus,) illegal.. [:D] Oops... who mentioned Trotsky?.. lol... [:)] [:D] [:)]
Drastic I know.. But we need 'drastic', and we need it asap if we want to make sure our youngsters inherit a planet that's worth living on...
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I find high oil prices a bit of a cleft stick, on the one hand its expensive for people to buy, on the other, maybe high oil prices will help to clean up our planet as people will use less?
We should make some new laws.. [:D] (1) To get all 4x4's off the road completely, make the only 4x4 allowed on the road a bog standard land Rover for farm use or similar work only.. (2) Make a minimum charge of £1,000 per person for any holiday air flights, (3) put a surcharge of £100,000 on every Leer jet taking off [;)].. (4) Allow people to run diesels on any used and cheap organic fuels they can find.. (5) Make people like John Travola owning Jumbo 707's (simply because they dont want to sit next to poor folk on a bus,) illegal.. [:D] Oops... who mentioned Trotsky?.. lol... [:)] [:D] [:)]
Drastic I know.. But we need 'drastic', and we need it asap if we want to make sure our youngsters inherit a planet that's worth living on...
.
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DoubleChevron
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Are us aussies the only one laughing till tears roll down our faces at the 'poor' people in the US and there "expensive" petrol. They'll need to invade another country with oil if the prices keep going up. Imagine expecting them not to drive the 5ton [S]tupid rban [V]ehicles to the schools and supermarkets.
If they lived somewhere like the UK, they wouldn't be driving 3-5ton trucks, they would be driving 1.1litre little cars ... Maybe this'll be a wakup call for them. With China buying every bit of petrol it can find, there is no way the prices are going to get hugely lower (we have litterally thousands of new cars a day hitting the roads of China, and they have as much right to what fuel is left as we do).
Maybe the US will have to bomb the car making factories in China so they can have all the precious oil back LOL ...
seeya,
Shane L.
If they lived somewhere like the UK, they wouldn't be driving 3-5ton trucks, they would be driving 1.1litre little cars ... Maybe this'll be a wakup call for them. With China buying every bit of petrol it can find, there is no way the prices are going to get hugely lower (we have litterally thousands of new cars a day hitting the roads of China, and they have as much right to what fuel is left as we do).
Maybe the US will have to bomb the car making factories in China so they can have all the precious oil back LOL ...
seeya,
Shane L.
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bigfrank100
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I work in a petrol station, and, I'd guess, every 2nd or 3rd customer was asking me if I knew if there was either going to be a fuel blockade or whether everyone was going to run out of fuel. This was just after filling their own vehicle to the brim in a panic induced frenzy. I point out to the people that the media is doing the most damage here by playing politics and attempting to scare the public into panic buying.
And as for the individuals actually performing the blockade, do they really speak for you or I, of course not. The last blockade was originally about a completely different issue, it was organised by a mr. Handley, who was a dairy farmer. He had a problem with how much the supermarkets were paying for his milk, so, he and a few of his chums got together and held the country to ransom. (This was all shown in a documentary that appeared after the protests had all died down).
Obviously the amount of duty and vat we pay on a litre of fuel is scandalous, but, correct me if I'm wrong here, the rate of duty hasn't really shifted by that much since the last protest, certainly the 20-30 pence rise (of which 3-5-ish pence is vat) can't be fully attributed the inept politicians, but I don't see people mentioning about going out to Saudi or Kuwait,etc. to protest there.
The protesters are demanding an immediate drop in fuel duty, fair enough, but by how much? A few pence wouldn't do anything(that's the difference between the supermarkets and the more expensive brands at the moment), and any more than that and he'd be looking somewhere else for it. Personally I think it should be heavily reduced on fuel and put across entirely onto booze and fags.
May we should introduce some of James.UK's new laws especially the bit about the 'Chelsea tractors'.
Sorry to take up your time, rant over!
And as for the individuals actually performing the blockade, do they really speak for you or I, of course not. The last blockade was originally about a completely different issue, it was organised by a mr. Handley, who was a dairy farmer. He had a problem with how much the supermarkets were paying for his milk, so, he and a few of his chums got together and held the country to ransom. (This was all shown in a documentary that appeared after the protests had all died down).
Obviously the amount of duty and vat we pay on a litre of fuel is scandalous, but, correct me if I'm wrong here, the rate of duty hasn't really shifted by that much since the last protest, certainly the 20-30 pence rise (of which 3-5-ish pence is vat) can't be fully attributed the inept politicians, but I don't see people mentioning about going out to Saudi or Kuwait,etc. to protest there.
The protesters are demanding an immediate drop in fuel duty, fair enough, but by how much? A few pence wouldn't do anything(that's the difference between the supermarkets and the more expensive brands at the moment), and any more than that and he'd be looking somewhere else for it. Personally I think it should be heavily reduced on fuel and put across entirely onto booze and fags.
May we should introduce some of James.UK's new laws especially the bit about the 'Chelsea tractors'.
Sorry to take up your time, rant over!
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Homer
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by James.UK</i>
We should make some new laws.. [:D] (1) To get all 4x4's off the road completely, make the only 4x4 allowed on the road a bog standard land Rover for farm use or similar work only..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
When we have banned the 4x4s, the MPVs, the sports cars and the large executive cars we can ban automatics because there is no need for those they use extra fuel for no good reason. And everything with over a 1.6 engine (diesel or petrol).[}:)] Oh, what is it you say you drive?
See where it leads?
Now I don't like 4x4s myself but to ban any one type of vehicle is to start down a very slippery slope. Don't forget there are numpties out there who would have every internal combustion engine scrapped.
The fact is there is no logic to banning 4x4s. Many of them take up less space than a family saloon and have better fuel consumption than your Mazda. And contrary to popular belief they are no more dangerous to pedestrians than ordinary hatchbacks.
The only one of your suggestions which makes any sense is #4.[:D]
We should make some new laws.. [:D] (1) To get all 4x4's off the road completely, make the only 4x4 allowed on the road a bog standard land Rover for farm use or similar work only..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
When we have banned the 4x4s, the MPVs, the sports cars and the large executive cars we can ban automatics because there is no need for those they use extra fuel for no good reason. And everything with over a 1.6 engine (diesel or petrol).[}:)] Oh, what is it you say you drive?
See where it leads?
Now I don't like 4x4s myself but to ban any one type of vehicle is to start down a very slippery slope. Don't forget there are numpties out there who would have every internal combustion engine scrapped.
The fact is there is no logic to banning 4x4s. Many of them take up less space than a family saloon and have better fuel consumption than your Mazda. And contrary to popular belief they are no more dangerous to pedestrians than ordinary hatchbacks.
The only one of your suggestions which makes any sense is #4.[:D]
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Kowalski
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Homer</i>
Many of them take up less space than a family saloon and have better fuel consumption than your Mazda. And contrary to popular belief they are no more dangerous to pedestrians than ordinary hatchbacks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There was an article in the Sunday times shouting about how 4x4s were not as bad as they appeared to be. In that article they compared the smallest most fuel efficient 4x4s to the biggest least efficient petrol cars they could find (Toyota Rav 4 + Honda CRV vs Aston Martin Vanquish and Mercedes S Class), they were comparing cheap common 4x4s to uncommon expensive luxury cars trying to prove a point.
The same article had a quote on one page from Honda saying that their 4x4 was more fuel efficient than saloon cars, but the page opposite showed that their OWN Honda Accord (Saloon or Estate) was more fuel efficient than their OWN CRV.
The previous week there had been an article explaining how sales of saloon cars were on the decline while sales of 4x4s were going up by the same amount, i.e. people were converting from relatively efficient saloon cars to relatively inefficient 4x4 vehicles.
Now if we consider that the smallest cars you can get come with engines of 1 litre and less, there simply isn’t a 4x4 that can delivery anything like the fuel economy of a 1 litre car, it can’t even compete with a saloon car of the same size. The Citroen C3 with the 1.4 HDI engine will do something like 65mpg combined, a C5 with the 1.6 HDI engine does over 50 mpg combined. If you drive a car that does more than 40mpg and convert to a 4x4 you will not find a 4x4 that can deliver significantly more than 40mpg combined, if significant numbers of people change to 4x4s that they don't actually need it amounts to significant amounts of oil being wasted, this is the bigger picture.
I would admit that SOME (in fact very few) 4x4 vehicles are in the same category of pedestrian safety as some cars. The thing about 4x4s though is that they are taller than normal cars. If an adult is hit by a car, their legs will fold and they will go over the top of the car bonnet and over the car, if you make the bonnet higher, the vehicle hits the person higher up and the pedestrian has to travel upwards further to get over the car. Now, replace the adult with a child and the child has NO chance of travelling over the bonnet of the 4x4, they get hit by the full force of the vehicle. A Land Rover Defender IS more dangerous to pedestrians than a Ford Mondeo, the steel bumpers on my Dad’s Jeep Cherokee would make a mess of any pedestrian.
Many of them take up less space than a family saloon and have better fuel consumption than your Mazda. And contrary to popular belief they are no more dangerous to pedestrians than ordinary hatchbacks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There was an article in the Sunday times shouting about how 4x4s were not as bad as they appeared to be. In that article they compared the smallest most fuel efficient 4x4s to the biggest least efficient petrol cars they could find (Toyota Rav 4 + Honda CRV vs Aston Martin Vanquish and Mercedes S Class), they were comparing cheap common 4x4s to uncommon expensive luxury cars trying to prove a point.
The same article had a quote on one page from Honda saying that their 4x4 was more fuel efficient than saloon cars, but the page opposite showed that their OWN Honda Accord (Saloon or Estate) was more fuel efficient than their OWN CRV.
The previous week there had been an article explaining how sales of saloon cars were on the decline while sales of 4x4s were going up by the same amount, i.e. people were converting from relatively efficient saloon cars to relatively inefficient 4x4 vehicles.
Now if we consider that the smallest cars you can get come with engines of 1 litre and less, there simply isn’t a 4x4 that can delivery anything like the fuel economy of a 1 litre car, it can’t even compete with a saloon car of the same size. The Citroen C3 with the 1.4 HDI engine will do something like 65mpg combined, a C5 with the 1.6 HDI engine does over 50 mpg combined. If you drive a car that does more than 40mpg and convert to a 4x4 you will not find a 4x4 that can deliver significantly more than 40mpg combined, if significant numbers of people change to 4x4s that they don't actually need it amounts to significant amounts of oil being wasted, this is the bigger picture.
I would admit that SOME (in fact very few) 4x4 vehicles are in the same category of pedestrian safety as some cars. The thing about 4x4s though is that they are taller than normal cars. If an adult is hit by a car, their legs will fold and they will go over the top of the car bonnet and over the car, if you make the bonnet higher, the vehicle hits the person higher up and the pedestrian has to travel upwards further to get over the car. Now, replace the adult with a child and the child has NO chance of travelling over the bonnet of the 4x4, they get hit by the full force of the vehicle. A Land Rover Defender IS more dangerous to pedestrians than a Ford Mondeo, the steel bumpers on my Dad’s Jeep Cherokee would make a mess of any pedestrian.
I agree with all that totally Kowalski. Its just common sense that a 4x4 will always use more fuel due to resistance, weight, transmission etc etc. Thing is if they were to ban 4x4's, manufacturers would probably produce the same thing but with just the rear wheels driven-then its just an odd shaped car that has absolutely no purpose whatsoever except looking big and ugly. There is literally nowhere where a line can be drawn. I think maybe the best plan would be to make a law that every new vehicle produced should acheive 35 MPG minimum. Of course thats not really likely to happen any time soon, but is less far fetched than banning 4x4's. And that stupid new Lexus Hybrid 4x4- Yes they state it will do more MPG than the average family saloon, but imagine what they could have acheived if they put the same technology to use on their smaller cars.
Lots of people buy them because they think they are "safer" for transporting their children, which, of course, at low town speeds they are-a dicovery absolutely slaughtered my old Uno with barely a scratch to itself.
Th story is different at motorway speeds however- they don't have the stability or controlability, squirming around on offroad tyres, and not much of an impact absorbing crush zone, either. This was raised on top gear when they did ncap, and the Range Rover, appearing superficially relatively undamaged, its massive chassis structure had transferred the impact forces to the passanger compartment-the doors wouldn't open.
The much more severely damaged looking megane still had opening doors-all the impact being absorbed by the front end crush zone.
This is all getting away from the point, however- 4x4's aren't the fuel gobbling monsters:they're the scapegoats for aeroplanes!!!
All those cheap flights to Teneriefe or wherever are only cheap because there is no duty on aircraft fuel. Its piled on to the car owner/driver, while the airlines don't pay any at all.....
I would suggest that car use is a lot more essential to the nation than cheap plane flights-and a lot less polluting as well-its time the airlines started to pay!!!
Th story is different at motorway speeds however- they don't have the stability or controlability, squirming around on offroad tyres, and not much of an impact absorbing crush zone, either. This was raised on top gear when they did ncap, and the Range Rover, appearing superficially relatively undamaged, its massive chassis structure had transferred the impact forces to the passanger compartment-the doors wouldn't open.
The much more severely damaged looking megane still had opening doors-all the impact being absorbed by the front end crush zone.
This is all getting away from the point, however- 4x4's aren't the fuel gobbling monsters:they're the scapegoats for aeroplanes!!!
All those cheap flights to Teneriefe or wherever are only cheap because there is no duty on aircraft fuel. Its piled on to the car owner/driver, while the airlines don't pay any at all.....
I would suggest that car use is a lot more essential to the nation than cheap plane flights-and a lot less polluting as well-its time the airlines started to pay!!!