Where to put new tyres?

macaroni · Post by **macaroni** » 08 Jun 2005, 20:42

Yvan Muller does it almost every race in his BTCC Astra as Jason Plato tries to "off" him. Absolute god-like car control.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Jun 2005, 21:19

Yvan does seem to be pretty skilled but when Tarquini did it it was a truly impressive sight, it was one of those where I thought there was no way he was going to stay on the road but he did. He was going well sideways (45 degrees) with smoke pouring out of the front arches drawing 4 black lines on the tarmac, it wasn't as tame as a little nudge and he did it all on his own.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 08 Jun 2005, 23:24

My car has most of its weight, most of its braking and all of its power through the front wheels, I always have my best tyres on there, In addition in the event of the rear stepping out I need the front to steer in order to regain control, citroens are so uncritical of rear tyre condition that they can be driven on three wheels, the old adage I was told was "put the best tyres you can get on the front and put the best tyres you can afford on the rear"
Stewart

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 08 Jun 2005, 23:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by VisaGTi16v

Kowalski "If you get oversteer with a front wheel drive car there isn't a whole lot to be done" - keep your foot down and if your car has the power it can normally pull itself straight, coupled with a lot of opposite lock

Still, not advisable to get into those situations on the public road!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've tried this in my Xantia unintentionally of course. It was as though everything went in slow motion as the back end stepped out on a tight wet left hander (55-60MPH) ditches on both sides in the pitch black[:D] I was suprised that with Loads of opposite lock it did correct however I overcorrected and I snaked a couple of times. The nasty Millenium tyres I had on the back were replaced with Goodyear NCT 5's. I now take it a bit more steady.

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 09 Jun 2005, 00:00

I agree with Stewart on this one, I can handle the rear end tying to overtake the front without two much trouble, the earlier XJ Jags and many other rear wheel drive cars did it 24/7.. drifting round corners with the rear end 'hanging out' was quite normal in those days, [:0] [8)] [:D] so us older blokes sort of grew up with it. (The most common mistake made was over-correction [:I])..
But in my experience, losing the front end is usually an unrecoverable situation [:0] [:(], tip top tyres are all the chance you got.
.

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Jun 2005, 00:24

Ask any 205GTi driver about Lift Off Oversteer (LOO). They're famous for it and it catches a lot of people out. One must learn to go against instinct and keep the old right foot well down in corners. Because of the tendency to LOO from say,being in the wrong gear in a corner to get lots of welly down to the from wheels, it's a good idea to keep the best boots on the back. Some rallying 205's have bloody great knobblies on the back and near-slicks on the front for this reason. LOO in a Xantia - now that's scary...

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 09 Jun 2005, 00:51

Citrojim, knobblies on the back and grippy slicks on the front on tarmac equates to what I tried to say, more grip on the front is better, as James asys those of us brought up on RWD motors are probably happier with the back end hanging out than the front end washing out.
stewart

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Jun 2005, 00:58

Sorry Stewart,
I really should have made reference to your Post! I was eating dinner whilst typing and my mind was not fully on the job. Low blood sugar perhaps judging by all my spelling mistakes in my last post. Please forgive me. It is bad form to repeat what has already been said and not credit the original poster. I will now go and stand in the corner with my dunces cap on for the rest of the evening...

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 09 Jun 2005, 01:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by VisaGTi16v

Kowalski "If you get oversteer with a front wheel drive car there isn't a whole lot to be done" - keep your foot down and if your car has the power it can normally pull itself straight, coupled with a lot of opposite lock

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was going to mention that but as you say
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Still, not advisable to get into those situations on the public road!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Since you are almost certain not to be heading in the direction you want to go and very few roads are built with runoff areas.[:D]
I agree, new tyres on the back. Some tyre fit places will even insist on it. As is often the case, the obvious answer is the wrong one.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 09 Jun 2005, 02:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oilyspanner

citroens are so uncritical of rear tyre condition that they can be driven on three wheels
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I had a corroded wheel rim on one of my alloys which meant the tyre went down, it didnt seem to go down steadily but would seem to lose a load of pressure then settle. When my wheel was like that I had a few occasions when the car oversteered in the wet, one occasion in particular was when I put the tyre on a white line on a roundabout. Luckily each time it happened I had the room to correct it (the car did most of the work in any case). This all happened with more tread at the rear than the front.
The tyre had only got down to 25 psi too, so it wasn't a big difference in pressure, but that is my experience and the reason why the rear end has the best grip.

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 09 Jun 2005, 04:18

I think we should take into account the type-model car, my ZX has no brakes to speak of on the back, [:I] i.e. expanding shoes inside drums. Fine for cars that did 50mph flat out but not much help in todays world!! If I put my rear wheels on a rolling road at 70mph then hit my footbrake as hard as possible the r-road would burst out laughing [:o)] [:D]
My car relies on front end braking, it is also very front end heavy. Apart from the fuel tank and spare wheel theres nothing at the back, and thats prob made worse by the fact I rarely if ever carry more than one passenger.. The car is also quite wide in comparison with its length.. So for me in my ZX 1.9D... its makes even more sense to put the best tyres on the front..
I have erm 'experimented' with the ZX passive rear steering, in as much as I have gone round very large roundabouts (late at night) at increasing speeds to the point that the rear tyres get noisey [;)] I have even felt the rear tyres were 'crabbing a bit' at times (I dont mean the effect the P-R-Steering gives you), but the rear end has never let go and swung out.. I think that could only happen if the car was being seriously abused..
There may be a case for good tyres on the rear of some model cars (Jags? lol [:o)]) but I think to a certain degree, it depends on the car you drive, and the way you drive it..
. [:)]

VisaGTi16v · Post by **VisaGTi16v** » 09 Jun 2005, 04:56

Yes ive just put some decent Toyo Proxies on the rear of my Supra as being rwd you can put the cheapest rubbish you want on the front. Ive not had it understeer once. Oversteer however on the old tyres christ. It was almost quicker walking to places if it was raining as you couldnt breath on the throttle on a corner without the rear trying to overtake the front

Putting decent tyres on the front of your zx will give you more traction, better cornering and braking ability and as long as you drive sensibly, having worse ones on the back will be ok. Ideally get 4 of the same if you can, there are good deals out there if you can find them at independant tyre centres etc.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 09 Jun 2005, 05:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by James.UK

it is also very front end heavy. Apart from the fuel tank and spare wheel theres nothing at the back,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yet another reason why you should have your best tread at the back.
The front is less likely to aquaplane precisely because it has more weight.

James.UK · Post by **James.UK** » 09 Jun 2005, 07:14

Hi Homer.. I haven't aquaplaned since they legislated against my old bare canvass crossply tyres [:D] With modern legal tyres if a car aquaplanes I personaly would put that down to poor driving skills, rather than poor tyre choices.. In adverse weather, we should all slow down.. [;)] If people persist in driving at speed in very wet conditions (and some do) the time will come when the best tyres on the planet wont save them.. [V]
If my old ZX ever tried to 'step out' at the back, a light touch on the throttle would whip it back very quickly.. I do like fwdrive for that very reason. [:D]
Fortunately the early (pre 1994) ZX 1.9D is one of the most well behaved and forgiving cars I have ever driven. [^]

Oscar Too · Post by **Oscar Too** » 09 Jun 2005, 19:27

Richard
Thanks for that concise yet very graphic explanation - well done!
Oscar