Where to put new tyres?

macaroni · Post by **macaroni** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:16

A colleague and myself were just discussing where should new tyres be put on a car. He maintains that for any car, 2 new tyres should always be put on the rear, regardless of the driven wheels.
The michelin website bears this out, but in 20 years of driving I have never heard this and always though the best tyres should be on the drivin wheels.
http://www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_ ... r_neuf.jsp
Any thoughts?

andycarter · Post by **andycarter** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:25

Put new tyres on the rear.
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... IC_ID=3934
IMHO the Vredestein Sportrac2 tyres are brilliant, I have always felt like they have bags of grip in any weather and the handling is smooth and predictable.

citroenzx · Post by **citroenzx** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:29

I suppose from a going point of view they should be on the driven wheels as they will provide the best grip.
As far as stopping the car they might have an advantage going on the back therefore making the car safer. This is just of the top of my head mind you

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:29

Most people take the safe option of putting them on the rear to give predictable handling. This makes the car safe.
If you prefer oversteer to understeer in the wet, (especially in standing water) put the new tyres on the front (I wouldn't advise this). This will make the car less safe.
Personally, I put the best tyres on the rear and understeer when its wet.

citroenzx · Post by **citroenzx** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:32

new tires on the back racing slicks on the front, best of both

macaroni · Post by **macaroni** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:33

OK, fair enough, I stand corrected. I will be getting 4 x Michelin Exalto2s anyway.
Thanks for the advice.

Oscar Too · Post by **Oscar Too** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:57

Can anyone give me a description of over/understeer? I keep coming across these terms and I'm baffled. Any short definitions out there?
Oscar

Post by **RichardW** » 08 Jun 2005, 18:05

Understeer: The car crashes through the hedge forwards
Oversteer: The car crashes through the car backwards
[:D]
Basically if the front of the car slides wide on a corner it is understeering, if the rear of the car slides wide it is oversteering (which usually rapidly leads to a spin).
For 99.9% of drivers where to put the tyres is academic as a) they never get anywhere near the adhesion limits, and b) if they did they would have no idea what to do to catch it and would crash anyway (whether fowards or backwards through the hedge [}:)])
I put the good tyres on the front, to maximise traction on wet / slippery roads. Most FWD have such a lot of designed in understeer, and modern tyres are so good, that it's very difficult to get them to oversteer, so you might as well limit the chance of understeer.
I had a completely knackered set of tyres on the back of my BX, and never got it to slide even pushing it on Highland roads. Did feel like it was running on rails with new tyres on though [8D]

VisaGTi16v · Post by **VisaGTi16v** » 08 Jun 2005, 18:10

This is what ive got on my Visa http://www.yokohamatire.com/pdf/AO48.pdf [:D]
They are road legal but the compounds so soft that I only used them on the road to bed in and there is quite noticable wear on the sides after 2 sprints and the 400 road miles heh! but they should last for the season. About as close as you can get to slicks whilst staying road legal and I dont want slicks at the moment for a number of reasons. They worked suprisingly well in the wet even with their almost non existant tread which was lucky as it chucked it down halfway through both events!

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Jun 2005, 18:32

I've changed all 4 tyres on my Xantia over the last couple of months, I did it as two sets of two. At one point I had new tyres on the rear and tyres that were barely legal on the front and the car understeered very badly at relatively low speeds (with or without throttle, even worse with) in the wet but dry grip was wonderful. Now that I've got new tyres on the front there is a massive difference in wet grip, I haven't really explored the limits of front end grip but the difference between wet and dry grip isn't so noticeable any more i.e. I can still go around corners at the speed I want to, wet or dry.
There is no way I would want the good tyres on the front and the old tyres on the back, that would make the car plainly dangerous. With a front wheel drive car, you can tell when grip is getting scarce because you get power understeer, taking the power off stops the understeer. If you get oversteer with a front wheel drive car there isn't a whole lot to be done, Nigel Mansell had the problem when he was in the BTCC for once race.
My car doesn't wear the rear tyres at all where as it eats the fronts, the original rear tyres were on the car at 78k miles where as the front had had at least two pairs of tyres in that time. If you put the new tyres on the rear, then move them to the front, you've always got good tyres at one end of the car and you only have to watch the wear of one pair. The other way around, the rear ends up with tyres that are part (mostly) worn and the front gets the new tyres and wears them down, so best case you've got one pair of worn tyres and one near bald pair, worst case two near bald pairs.
Michelin does some tyres similar to those you've got...
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/reifenbest ... 03&dsco=10
Formula 3000 wets used to be the way to go for Caterhams and the like, as I remember they had "Not for highway use" stamped into the side of them in big letters.

rbruce1314 · Post by **rbruce1314** » 08 Jun 2005, 19:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kowalski

My car doesn't wear the rear tyres at all where as it eats the fronts, the original rear tyres were on the car at 78k miles where as the front had had at least two pairs of tyres in that time.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
but unless you do high miles there is then the risk of the rubber going hard on the rears and the walls splitting.
Whichever way you do things, swap the tyres front/rear at some stage so that you renew the covers alternately.
(Here speaks one who has had a sidewall split, though fortunately without serious results)

ActivaV6uk · Post by **ActivaV6uk** » 08 Jun 2005, 19:11

I know that macaroni drives an activa, whith this cars setup having the good tires at the front ends up with you facing the wrong way frequently on roundabouts (talk to oscis from the activanet forum about it). definatly put the good tires on the back i think its the only thing that has kept Becky on the road over the winter.
your going for 205/55/15's then?
Andy

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Jun 2005, 19:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rbruce1314
but unless you do high miles there is then the risk of the rubber going hard on the rears and the walls splitting.
Whichever way you do things, swap the tyres front/rear at some stage so that you renew the covers alternately.
(Here speaks one who has had a sidewall split, though fortunately without serious results)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Car tyre rubber lasts an awfully long time, in fact for all intents and purposes it lasts forever. For a sidewall to split it would have to have a manufacturing defect or some sort of abuse (accident damage / run underinflated) to break the cords i.e. the structural bit of the tyre, the rubber is just the filler.
My Dad has a tractor, it had new tyres about 15 years ago and the tyres haven't cracked or split. The spare tyre on my Xantia is original and unused and showing no signs of aging whatsoever. Sunlight makes the surface of rubber harden, but it only affects that which it penetrate and since rubber opaque only the surface deteriorates.
Rubber lasts pretty much for ever, rubber artifacts from roman times are dug up and they're often in pretty good condition.

VisaGTi16v · Post by **VisaGTi16v** » 08 Jun 2005, 19:36

Kowalski "If you get oversteer with a front wheel drive car there isn't a whole lot to be done" - keep your foot down and if your car has the power it can normally pull itself straight, coupled with a lot of opposite lock

Still, not advisable to get into those situations on the public road!

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 08 Jun 2005, 20:35

Watching the BTCC I saw Gabrielli Tarquini pull it off once in a Honda Accord, there was tyresmoke but he had enough road to recover in. Every other time I've seen anybody try it they've ended up on the grass.