<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stinkwheel</i>
Does the towd vehicle become a trailer? I use a light board etc and the 2cv has a low weight as it is but is not braked.
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Technically, (in the UK) if the car is registered for road use, it does not become a trailer. It must be Taxed an MOT'd. (although I seriously doubt it would ever be a problem) Does a 2CV weigh less than 750Kg? I guess so!
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I also towed an unbraked twin axle trailer with an acadiane on with a 1600 ford orion. It was not powerful enough and braking was something to be planned but not dangerous (although could easily have become so)
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This sounds positively dangerous. If the gross trailer weight is over 750kg, then it MUST have brakes. I would never tow anything over about 500kg without working brakes
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Lastly I hired a Proper Brian James trailer to transport a dyane, this i towed with my 5 Litre V8 Oldsmobile. It was like it wasnt even there, The way to go is big torquey tow car and a quality trailer every time.
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Much more like it! [:D]
I have also made up a towing a-frame for towing a car on it's 4 wheels, but added an interesting feature: The A-frame has an over-run braking slider, which has a bowden cable connected to it. This then goes in through an open window of the car being towed, and has an assembly that presses the brake pedal of the car. Worked amazingly well just recently using the 405 hunter (sig) to tow the 405 GLDT (sig) on a 250 mile journey to deliver it. The main benefit of this was the ability to dismantle it, and shove it in the back of the towing car on the return journey, and not have to tow a trailer all the way back again.
Trailer hire £40
Moderator: RichardW
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fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
Fastandfurryous your a hero!
What you have said is pretty much along the lines of what i had wangled from various sources. All the way down to the trailer not being a trailer if it's legally registered as a car!
The biggest problem i have is that i have to look after the University Canoe Club trailer, which about 18 months ago was VERY far from illegal. It's pretty much been rebuilt from the ground up, with only the wheel arches left to go on (this weekend) and nothing is original on it what so ever! It's been fitted with over run brakes simply as a safety thing, especially since a whole range of young drivers who think they know how to drive end up propelling it with totally unsuitable vehicles.
I have a couple of possible problems left to resolve. Firstly no one has a clue how heavy it is when loaded! Now it takes plastic boats on it so the only way to check this is to calculate the unladen weight of the trailer then calculate the maximum weight that can be put on it by figuring out what the weight of our heaviest boat, and multiplying that by 12! But so far the trailer is un weighed, is there anyway i can get this done for free? Once i have my car back on the road im going to see if i can persuade the local police to do it (they have several weigh bridges).
Next problem is one you've just pointed out in that i has NO rear fog light! In fact it has never had one, and i assumed that it wouldn't ned one having never had one. Generally you CAN see the lights of the vehicle towing it so im in no rush, but i have no idea how i can fit it. The design specification when i came to built it was to make it 'Will' proof (to put that into perspective, will has managed to roll the thing once, snap the hitch clean off and has written off 7 cars in three years!), and as such it will be VERY difficult to fit something that wont get broken off!
Finally, after reading all the lighting regs a couple of years ago, i intend to fit the trailer with various running lights, utilising ultrabright LED's. i appreciate these are not strictly legal, but i will fit an issolator so if needed they can be switched off. I also plan to fit side repeaters as the trailer is around 3metres long, painted black and even i have had encounters int eh day light where people have near driven into its side!
Then there is the next problem, i have one of those plastic licenses that doesn't let you tow anything bigger than a hamster wheel! And it would seem it is goign to cost AT LEAST £80 just to get the towing add on, and the test doesn't really consist of anything special!
Has anyone done one of these tests or know anything about it? What i've read is that there is nothing real on the test and that it's just a way for the Government to exact more money!
What you have said is pretty much along the lines of what i had wangled from various sources. All the way down to the trailer not being a trailer if it's legally registered as a car!
The biggest problem i have is that i have to look after the University Canoe Club trailer, which about 18 months ago was VERY far from illegal. It's pretty much been rebuilt from the ground up, with only the wheel arches left to go on (this weekend) and nothing is original on it what so ever! It's been fitted with over run brakes simply as a safety thing, especially since a whole range of young drivers who think they know how to drive end up propelling it with totally unsuitable vehicles.
I have a couple of possible problems left to resolve. Firstly no one has a clue how heavy it is when loaded! Now it takes plastic boats on it so the only way to check this is to calculate the unladen weight of the trailer then calculate the maximum weight that can be put on it by figuring out what the weight of our heaviest boat, and multiplying that by 12! But so far the trailer is un weighed, is there anyway i can get this done for free? Once i have my car back on the road im going to see if i can persuade the local police to do it (they have several weigh bridges).
Next problem is one you've just pointed out in that i has NO rear fog light! In fact it has never had one, and i assumed that it wouldn't ned one having never had one. Generally you CAN see the lights of the vehicle towing it so im in no rush, but i have no idea how i can fit it. The design specification when i came to built it was to make it 'Will' proof (to put that into perspective, will has managed to roll the thing once, snap the hitch clean off and has written off 7 cars in three years!), and as such it will be VERY difficult to fit something that wont get broken off!
Finally, after reading all the lighting regs a couple of years ago, i intend to fit the trailer with various running lights, utilising ultrabright LED's. i appreciate these are not strictly legal, but i will fit an issolator so if needed they can be switched off. I also plan to fit side repeaters as the trailer is around 3metres long, painted black and even i have had encounters int eh day light where people have near driven into its side!
Then there is the next problem, i have one of those plastic licenses that doesn't let you tow anything bigger than a hamster wheel! And it would seem it is goign to cost AT LEAST £80 just to get the towing add on, and the test doesn't really consist of anything special!
Has anyone done one of these tests or know anything about it? What i've read is that there is nothing real on the test and that it's just a way for the Government to exact more money!
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fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
Personally, I'm all in favour of the towing test. It may be rather expensive (I didn't know it was THAT much) but if it makes people think twice about putting a massive trailer on the back of a pug 205, then it has to be good news. I have never been required to take the test, but I did practice in an empty tesco's car park for about 4 hours unitl I could reverse a trailer all the way around a roundabout, take an exit, and then park in a bay... all backwards! Learning the dynamics of a trailer on the road takes experience, there is no substitute. (mind you, it also takes a lot of care... a non-will driver?[:D])
To weigh the trailer, use a public weighbridge. Some are free, some cost a nominal fee. It might be a good idea to avoid using a police one, as if they discover you've broken the law to get there, they might not let you leave! Trailers can be deceptively heavy. A 500kg trailer can be wheeled around surprisingly easily. I think you'll be amazed as just how much your trailer weighs. The average unladen flatbed trailer is often 600-700Kg, and a big Ifor-Williams flatbed can be a tonne before it even has any load on it! If you're anywhere near dorset, you could come and hang it on my overhead gantry and weigh it with the 1tonne(!) spring balance I have.
Installing a fog lamp is easy. The blue cable in the cable coming from the multiplug is the feed for a foglamp. It should be connected to pin 2 of the plug. Buy a cheapo foglamp (couple of quid from a decent motorfactors, or maybe towsure) make sure it has a good earth back to pin 3 of the multiplug (white wire). This should then come on either with the car foglamps, or if it has a "fog cut" system, instead of the car foglamps.
The "fog cut" system was introduced as a way of preventing the foglamps on the car coming on when towing a caravan or similar, as the reflected red light from the caravan can be horribly offputting when driving in fog!
Now all you need to fit are reversing lamps... which requires a car fitted with both 12N (black socket) and 12S (white socket) [:D][:D][:D]
Actually, I'm not joking. Have you ever tried to reverse a trailer in the pitch black with no reversing lamps. It's hard!
To weigh the trailer, use a public weighbridge. Some are free, some cost a nominal fee. It might be a good idea to avoid using a police one, as if they discover you've broken the law to get there, they might not let you leave! Trailers can be deceptively heavy. A 500kg trailer can be wheeled around surprisingly easily. I think you'll be amazed as just how much your trailer weighs. The average unladen flatbed trailer is often 600-700Kg, and a big Ifor-Williams flatbed can be a tonne before it even has any load on it! If you're anywhere near dorset, you could come and hang it on my overhead gantry and weigh it with the 1tonne(!) spring balance I have.
Installing a fog lamp is easy. The blue cable in the cable coming from the multiplug is the feed for a foglamp. It should be connected to pin 2 of the plug. Buy a cheapo foglamp (couple of quid from a decent motorfactors, or maybe towsure) make sure it has a good earth back to pin 3 of the multiplug (white wire). This should then come on either with the car foglamps, or if it has a "fog cut" system, instead of the car foglamps.
The "fog cut" system was introduced as a way of preventing the foglamps on the car coming on when towing a caravan or similar, as the reflected red light from the caravan can be horribly offputting when driving in fog!
Now all you need to fit are reversing lamps... which requires a car fitted with both 12N (black socket) and 12S (white socket) [:D][:D][:D]
Actually, I'm not joking. Have you ever tried to reverse a trailer in the pitch black with no reversing lamps. It's hard!
Always thought that hazard flashers and foglights were fitted to aid reversing in the dark!
Seriously these things can be extremely dangerous in the hands of the ignorant. Towing weights may be a bit arbitary as I remeber Jaguar added about 6 hundredweight (300 kg) or so overnight when it was pointed out that their max for the series 111 XJ6 was very low.
The caravan enthusiasts say that for stability the laden trailer weight should never exceed 100 % of the towing vehicle weight and that 80% is ideal. This now seems to accord with manufacturers limits.
The problem is that while it may not be stricktly against the law, would an insurer use a heavy trailer as an excuse to avoid payment?
What always amused me was the enormous limits for series Land Rovers - yet this thing had 70 BHP and drum brakes that took considerable skill to get adjusted correctly and no doubt usually were not. You wouldn't get stuck on a hill due to the transfer box but - brakes - well!
jeremy
Seriously these things can be extremely dangerous in the hands of the ignorant. Towing weights may be a bit arbitary as I remeber Jaguar added about 6 hundredweight (300 kg) or so overnight when it was pointed out that their max for the series 111 XJ6 was very low.
The caravan enthusiasts say that for stability the laden trailer weight should never exceed 100 % of the towing vehicle weight and that 80% is ideal. This now seems to accord with manufacturers limits.
The problem is that while it may not be stricktly against the law, would an insurer use a heavy trailer as an excuse to avoid payment?
What always amused me was the enormous limits for series Land Rovers - yet this thing had 70 BHP and drum brakes that took considerable skill to get adjusted correctly and no doubt usually were not. You wouldn't get stuck on a hill due to the transfer box but - brakes - well!
jeremy
Ultimately thats correct but low ratio isn't easy to handle on the road unless you stop and engage it and you just don't see land Rovers stopped at the top of hills while low ration is engaged. (Double declutching is more fun but trying to move the main lever to match the ratio at the same time is even more!)
4th low is about the same as 2nd high - I can't see many people towing horsetrailers like that! (Many years ago I actually witnessed a lady get her family pushing her Land Rover and horse trailer out of a muddy field - without even trying 4WD!)
jeremy
4th low is about the same as 2nd high - I can't see many people towing horsetrailers like that! (Many years ago I actually witnessed a lady get her family pushing her Land Rover and horse trailer out of a muddy field - without even trying 4WD!)
jeremy
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fastandfurryous
- Posts: 1388
- Joined: 07 Jul 2004, 17:57
- Location: On the road, travelling at high speed. Meep Meep.
- My Cars:
- x 4
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jeremy</i>
What always amused me was the enormous limits for series Land Rovers - yet this thing had 70 BHP and drum brakes that took considerable skill to get adjusted correctly and no doubt usually were not. You wouldn't get stuck on a hill due to the transfer box but - brakes - well!
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Yep! done that. Coming down a sodding nasty steep hill in wales, with a Series 2 LWB landrover, on a twin axle trailer, behind a Series 3 Diesel with 10" brakes. It was physically impossible to stop. I stood on the brake pedal so hard that I bent it, pulled a muscle in my leg, and put a bruise on my foot.
I'd managed to shift it down into low-second gear, and was beginning to pull on the transmission brake too, but it wasn't stopping. I was very glad that the lights changed at the junction at the bottom of the hill as I approached them!.
Said landrover is now being uprated with 11x2.25" brakes!
Changing between High and low ratios in a Series Landrover is reasonably easy once you get used to it. I can shift both ways on the move now, and haven't crunched it in ages.
Towing limits on vehicles cannot be expressed as a % of the vehicle weight, as the towing safe weight increases faster than the vehicle weight. The most you can tow safely with a 106/AX or similar is probably only about 400Kg (half the vehicle weight). My FC Landrover will pull 4 tonnes without problems (it weighs about 2.5 tonnes), and of course an articulated lorry tractor unit is about 8 tonnes, but will pull 34.
What always amused me was the enormous limits for series Land Rovers - yet this thing had 70 BHP and drum brakes that took considerable skill to get adjusted correctly and no doubt usually were not. You wouldn't get stuck on a hill due to the transfer box but - brakes - well!
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Yep! done that. Coming down a sodding nasty steep hill in wales, with a Series 2 LWB landrover, on a twin axle trailer, behind a Series 3 Diesel with 10" brakes. It was physically impossible to stop. I stood on the brake pedal so hard that I bent it, pulled a muscle in my leg, and put a bruise on my foot.
I'd managed to shift it down into low-second gear, and was beginning to pull on the transmission brake too, but it wasn't stopping. I was very glad that the lights changed at the junction at the bottom of the hill as I approached them!.
Said landrover is now being uprated with 11x2.25" brakes!
Changing between High and low ratios in a Series Landrover is reasonably easy once you get used to it. I can shift both ways on the move now, and haven't crunched it in ages.
Towing limits on vehicles cannot be expressed as a % of the vehicle weight, as the towing safe weight increases faster than the vehicle weight. The most you can tow safely with a 106/AX or similar is probably only about 400Kg (half the vehicle weight). My FC Landrover will pull 4 tonnes without problems (it weighs about 2.5 tonnes), and of course an articulated lorry tractor unit is about 8 tonnes, but will pull 34.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DLM</i>
Bernie -
(1) where did you hire from? (Mail me via forum if you don't wish to advertise)
(2) Which of the fleet did you use to tow with?
(3) Why do I keep asking you questions?
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Hi David
1 Hampshire Trailer Centre
West Quay Rd
02380333111
It was a 4 wheel with hydraulic ramp and manual winch trailer £40 all in
2 Xantia
3 OK I give up, why?[:D][:D][:D]
Bernie -
(1) where did you hire from? (Mail me via forum if you don't wish to advertise)
(2) Which of the fleet did you use to tow with?
(3) Why do I keep asking you questions?
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Hi David
1 Hampshire Trailer Centre
West Quay Rd
02380333111
It was a 4 wheel with hydraulic ramp and manual winch trailer £40 all in
2 Xantia
3 OK I give up, why?[:D][:D][:D]