Best cars of all time

DLM · Post by **DLM** » 24 Feb 2005, 23:35

Interesting to see the Maxi get mentioned here more than once - and the Renault 16 too in connection with the Maxi as a similar concept. Before you pick me up, I don't know which came first. I just know that they did a very good job for their time.
For a while in the 1960s/1970s BL were very good at designing cars that paid attention to the needs of both passengers and drivers. The basic design of the old Austin 1100/1300 - i.e. as a stretched version of the original mini - was pretty inspirational for the time, but then I like intelligent compromise. The execution (and the attention paid to corrosion issues) was less than inspirational, however. With a hatch and development it could have competed for years longer.

Post by **Jon** » 25 Feb 2005, 00:34

Wheres the BX then? [:0]
BTW as far as I can recall the R16 first launched in France in 1965 whereas the Maxi was 68 or 69 in the UK. I actually think that the Maxi had a lot going for it. Apart from the cable gearshift, the E series engines and the fact that it shared its doors with the Morris 1800! But hey, the seats reclined into a bed and it was a decent hatchback. [:)]At least it was different

Dave Bamber · Post by **Dave Bamber** » 25 Feb 2005, 00:43

We have alot of closet Maxi fans on here[:0][:o)]

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Feb 2005, 04:00

I'm not one of them! If it had the XU motor and box, it would have been a contender but imagine the stick I got when I made that suggestion to the Landcrab OC!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 25 Feb 2005, 04:18

Yes jon - I'm sure you're right that the Renault 16 pre-dated the maxi by a few years, I recall in roadtests at the time the renault always did better than the Maxi.
The maxi's problems were its looks and its awful initial quality. By this I mean that the facelifted cars were introduced after only 18 months or so and so must have been in mind at launch. yes a good maxi would do its job very well, was comfortable and competent if still rather noisy abd a bit heavy to steer. I remeber being lent a 1750 auto when new - if you kicked down this thing changed down 2 gears and the engine nearly lept out of the car.
The trouble was it was what you should buy if you are sensible but who wants to be sensible - so Fords and ever larger Vauxhalls continued to sell, imports gained ground and people didn't buy Maxi's then Ford introduced the Mk111 Cortina and that finished it off really. After all by 1972 BLMC had realised they had problems with it and introduced the half baked Marina to try and sell something in that very important market.
My own view is that Rover are still suffering from the Maxi - had it been attractive to purchasers the company's future and to some extent that of the country as a whole would have been rather different.
Of course having made the first hatchback (Austin A40 - 1958) they then killed it in 1967 and made the Allegro without a hatch. (and a square steering wheel) - strange but true!
Then of course there was the Austin 3 Litre the prototype of which was apparently long delayed as no-one really knew how to sort out the self levelling rear suspension. It was then introduced sharing a modified 1800 bodyshell (yes Maxi doors again!)and an enormous grill which really finished it in the looks dept. Ford helped here with the Mk 1V Zephyrs but even that wasn't enough to make the Austin sell. had it had a tidied up front with a Wolseley grill at least it would have looked dignified and might have sold more than the handful it did.
Ah well - just shows if you try hard enough you can ruin anything I suppose. - nearly took jaguar with them didn't they!
jeremy

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 25 Feb 2005, 11:56

The Maxi and the R16 were the same concept but Renault did it first and better.

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:11

Having nicked and then patented Citroen's constructional techniques.

Post by **philhoward** » 25 Feb 2005, 22:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yangreen

They say "don't drive your dream cars as it will only disappoint you." I drove a Viper and while you can't argue with the speed of the thing, it feels like the whole thing used to be a truck, not just the engine!
The wind noise was a bit much at 130mph too!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The company I work for made the in-house rolling road for the Viper; apparently it used a gallon of petrol just getting it back into its shipping crate after factory acceptance tests...and that was only as far as the carpark!

dillosk8ter · Post by **dillosk8ter** » 25 Feb 2005, 23:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomsheppard

Having nicked and then patented Citroen's constructional techniques.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Absolutly!! The Renault 16 concept was nicked from Citroen, secret concept car: see www.citroenet.org.uk/html/f/f.htm Citroen 'Concept F'.
Just as Renault 4 and its family are copies of 2cv: 2cv/Renault 4, Ami 6+8/Renault 6 (albeit with hatch), 2cv commercials/Ren 4 commercials and finally Citroen Mehari/Renault Rodeo.
Matra originally offered the 'Espace' conecept to PSA using the BX as a basis.
See also: www.citroenet.org.uk/html/p/pretend.htm.

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 26 Feb 2005, 00:45

I wouldn't say the R16 was a copied Citroen at all!! It may be vaguely similar around the C post but thats about it. An R16 has a back to front watercooled motor and torsion bar springing- nothing like concept F.The only thing it shares with a Citroen is its finger-trapping mechanicals!!
Same with the R4-its nothing like a 2CV-it has two more cylinders and a radiator for a start. Renault went with torsion bars, Citroen with hydraulics-completely different concepts.
What they are, however, is aimed at the same market, thats why they look the same, in much the same way as a C is aimed at the Mondeo/Vectra/Primera market.

tomsheppard · Post by **tomsheppard** » 26 Feb 2005, 00:49

The constructional techniques were almost certainly stolen. Renault was state owned and wanted to see Citroen shut down.

Forth · Post by **Forth** » 26 Feb 2005, 02:22

In the 1980s saw a Renault 16 in a garage that was much of the way towards being converted into a 3 wheeler (two front, one in the middle at back). No idea how well it worked out (or not).