Another "speared" Xantia strut top...Check YOURS!

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andmcit
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Post by andmcit » 07 Dec 2008, 01:08

This all looks painfully familiar to me... :roll: :shock:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0278936656

Image
Image

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Post by fatherjack2002 » 26 Dec 2008, 17:33

Found this pic while "surfing the net" . Is this a recommended repair ? if so it could save ££££££££ in repair bills :shock: :shock: , think an MOT tester may take a dim view though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Paul

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Post by ACTIVE8 » 01 Jan 2009, 15:23

That one has gone, and been caught by the bodged home made bracket, as for how long that weak strap will hold it from going any further is anyone's guess!

Are there any other pictures of that one, and did this "strap" save the bonnet?
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Post by AndersDK » 01 Jan 2009, 16:56

My bet its an australian Shane modification :D

... which certainly is NOT intended as a repair, only as a safety precation, which in this example has served its purpose well.
Its been discussed earlier on the australian site, and despite Shanes good will to make a simple piece of safety equipment, he did receive quite some punting on bad repair methods - which is was never meant to be :roll:

It certainly is the last straw that enables you to limp home and replace the strut top :wink:

Biggest concern is the mediocre bolt(s) holding the strap. These bolts are only there to keep the strut top located, not to carry any part of the cars weight.
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Post by andmcit » 01 Jan 2009, 18:13

Sorry for you Mike - you didn't need this as a Christmas/new Year's present.

The car can likely be worked on as it is now as it's been left depressurised
a while and just try physically gripping and wobbling the strut head to see
how free the movement in it is now to determine if there's any latent
pressure; obviously open the bleed screw on the regulator/accumulator first
and you could then run the engine with the manual lever on the lowest
suspension setting but may need to jack up against the nearside suspension
arm as you've got the bodywork propped off the floor a bit.

I've got a series of pics in this thread way back on page 15 to give you an
idea of what needs doing and more to the point what tools would be handy!

You're lucky if the bonnet isn't too badly damaged as the grey isn't a
common colour and likley a right git (like my black Activa) to get decent
replacement panels for!

All the best!
Andrew
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Post by CitroJim » 01 Jan 2009, 18:40

Oh Mike, so sorry to see this has happened :cry: :evil:

So it happened all on it's own, parked up? Just like I've seen a 406 spring break... Still, better to go then rather than when in motion.

Depressurising may be a little tricky as the anti-sink valve will be closed and as there is no weight on the front suspension now, it'll likely not reopen so getting the sphere undone on the broken side could be a bit tricky as it'll be under a lot of pressure.

Put loads of rag under the sphere on the oppoiste side and release that sphere carefully just a few turns until LHM starts to weep out. Undo it gradually to dissipate the pressure. There will be a good bit of pressure and a fair spillage of LHM. You'll need a good tool to get the sphere moving. Once done, all pressure will be out and the sphere on the broken side will then unscrew without any bother.

As Andrew says, jack up the car at the front and support, treating it as a conventional car. You'll find it remarkably heavy to jack up after being used to the hydraulics doing it for you! If the failed side is sitting really low, it needs a very slim jack to get under.

Hope the bonnet damage is slight and repairable...
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Post by andmcit » 01 Jan 2009, 20:48

superloopy1 wrote:Am i ok to start the engine (as Andrew mentions) with suspension on low or is there no gain and lots of potential pain?

My main concern is the floor standing NSF wheel. When i jack it up i normally i place a jack under centre front subframe. Do i need to support elsewhere (under hub for example)?


If you have the height lever on low/minimum setting the high pressure
won't be delivered to the suspension circuit/height correctors and any
latent high pressure is released although due to the car sitting on the prop
it may be worthwhile positioning a jack under the car, removing the prop
and lowing the jack and allowing the car to sink right to the floor - this will
allow all the fluid to return to the reservoir and any pressure to drop.

superloopy1 wrote:The wheel presumably will not rise as the strut / hub is no longer attached to the wing?


The broken top of the strut head will be very loose now it's lost it's anchor
point so one thing you must be very careful with is the 3.5mm hydraulic
feed pipe. If this get's split/knackered you'll need to renew the pipe as
well! If you undo that after lowering the car onto the jack and opening
the bleed bolt on the accumulator you'll then see if there's any more
pressure!! It'd be easier removing the sphere before the pipe if you're
still worried about the pressure.

Will this cause any damage (i've seen driveshaft mentioned on NSF?)?


You need to watch the driveshaft doesn't get pulled out of the seal on the
diff/gearbox as there'll be gearbox oil all over the place - that's as worse
as that can get as the driveshaft is the short length and isn't anchored to
the engine so can't pull the inner joint apart!

Not starting the engine, system is still pressurised albeit standing for a couple of days idle, how much pressure (not of the dangerous sort i trust??) is there and is there any gain in just slackening, as you say Jim, the OSF sphere and then walking away for a couple of days?


When the pressure has been vented and run out of the system by running
on the low setting you'll see free movement on the good or bad strut top
mounting by palming the sphere and trying to rock it; if there's no
pressure there will be noticeable movement if there is no pressure!

In any event (engine on or off) i 'm assuming i should depressurise at the
12mm accumulator block, yes?


Yes!

Oh, one last thing .... am i going to be able to undo top strut nut with the whole strut no longer attached to the car?


I 'cracked' the tension off the top nut first before removing the sphere.

Andrew
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Post by andmcit » 08 Jan 2009, 20:40

Hi Mike

- simple Loctite threadlock:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products ... 8&plid=153

only real pointer is take it easy and watch the driveshaft doesn't pull out
of the gearbox and spill gearbox oil.

Andrew
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Post by DickieG » 08 Jan 2009, 21:04

superloopy1 wrote:Someone mentioned that you must Loctite the top nut on re-assembly?
Why when it is a Nylock nut? Renew the nut yes but Loctite/threadlock is unnecessary, indeed I've checked on the tightness of this nut on all the Xantia's I've had (one or two :roll: including brand new ones :D ) as there can be a slight weep age from this area and in every instance no threadlock had been used.
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Post by andmcit » 08 Jan 2009, 21:21

DickieG wrote:
superloopy1 wrote:Someone mentioned that you must Loctite the top nut on re-assembly?
Why when it is a Nylock nut? Renew the nut yes but Loctite/threadlock is unnecessary, indeed I've checked on the tightness of this nut on all the Xantia's I've had (one or two :roll: including brand new ones :D ) as there can be a slight weep age from this area and in every instance no threadlock had been used.


Very true Richard.

The key to this is the sealing at the two O rings of the main strut's taper
so a successful fitment of the nut isn't so much down to it's grip so much
as how tight it needs to be - I'll see if I can find a correct torque for the
nut although I've just tightened them as tight by adhoc feel as I found
them although damned tight is a vague measurement!!

Andrew
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Post by andmcit » 09 Jan 2009, 22:43

superloopy1 wrote:So .... the concensus is to change the nuts at the very least instead
of going down the Loctite route, yes?

I've reused the old nut in the past but for the sake of a few quid, you'll get
peace of mind using a nyloc nut = that's what they're used for - to prevent
loosening of the correct torque tightness. I reused the bump stop too.

superloopy1 wrote:I've been having a dig around PR_NET (as-was) and there is an item at
the top of each strut, the 'boot ring' which i assume takes the top end
of the gaitor. Do I need to renew any of these at all?

I'm not sure what this would be. The lip the bellows gaitor grips around is
part of the moulding/casting of the strut top. Looking at an old picture I
posted here there's no 'ring' just O rings and bump stop;

Image

The nearest to anything in the illustration is item 5 which in reality is part of
the bumpstop item 4. The one off my recent restrut looked like this:

Image

and was in fine fettle and was reused - just make sure you get it fitted the
correct way around and that it's not crushed or damaged. In actual fact,
the illustration seems at odds being the wrong way up to the bumpstop as
found and removed and pictured when I changed one!! :shock:

Image

The only likely item you'll need beyond a new strut top is a matching
bellows as apparently there's been a redesign. If you're using a good
second hand one I'd just make sure the bellows matches it.

Andrew
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Post by andmcit » 09 Jan 2009, 22:48

I guess this "boot ring" could be item 7 which is clipped around the lower neck
of the external shell of the main strut - didn't realise this is a part that could
be removable. :?:

Andrew
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Post by red_dwarfers » 09 Jan 2009, 23:32

I never had any trouble with the bellows when I did mine, they appeared to fit fine, so don't go buying them unless your sure :wink:
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Post by andmcit » 10 Jan 2009, 11:47

Hi Mike.

Unfortunately I never thoroughly compared the original bellows with the
replacement that the Citroen parts guy said I needed to buy with the new
strut top to see if the diameter or circumference clip of it was significantly
different. If your strut top has the bump on the front, whilst not an exact
science, I'd say it's the 'new design' which used a different bellows.

Safest thing to do is check the part number with the spares department if
you can't trial fit the old bellows on the new strut top.

For what it's worth, a comparison picture of old and new
Image

I wouldn't be concerned about the length overall so much as the diameter
of the bellows at the strut top end as it appears a mite larger in diameter
whilst being slightly further away from the camera; like I said, not an exact
science!! The smaller end still clips onto the outer ring on the strut so I
would expect it to be the same. There does appear to be a deeper
reinforcement ring on the large end of the bellows which may be a
stronger grip on the lip of the strut top mind!

Hasn't someone on this thread mentioned using an old bellows on a new
strut top though?

Andrew
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Post by andmcit » 12 Jan 2009, 17:17

Hi Mike,

the bellows gaiter depends on the RP number of your car - up to 7244 is £25.91
and post RP 7245 is £11.52!!

Are you changing both strut tops?

Andrew
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