Xantiaman's Blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Sid_the_Squid
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 15:35

Post by Sid_the_Squid » 01 Oct 2009, 10:06

Sounds like a tough job, good luck :)
Keep the posts coming, would defiantly be interested to hear more.

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KP
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Post by KP » 01 Oct 2009, 10:14

To make it easier i would be tempted to drop the whole lot in as it is without splitting things as it will save you more time than anything else. Engine has to come out the top does it not as well due to the hydraulic pipes and so forth??

When you take yours out and see where its split you could maybe put some extra weld on that part of the newer engine to keep it going for a while??

XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan » 01 Oct 2009, 20:19

My current engine is very good, uses no oil or knocks. So rather than change it to an unknown, its best to keep what i know and change the bits that need sorting.

I have offered the engine to a forum member once i have the bits i need. I dont have a huge amount of space especially now...


Vicky is about to get her provisional license, and whilst i am happy for her to use the Xantia she really wants her own car.

For a while i kept my eyes open at the dealers i visit and this week, we found something ideal.

Image


Keeping it in the PSA family with a phase 2 306 Dturbo :o

Its in a decent ish colour which the missus likes. Done 132k, needs a good service, valet, polish and a few dents knocked out, but its one of the better ones i have seen and they tend to be over priced. It drives very well and mid range impressive, its great to have a XUD9 back in the family!

It has a Lucas pump which in the future may get changed for Bosch. It needs a head gasket because of an oil leak but its not serious and oil level is still at the top. A couple of tyres are needed immediately as the fronts are illegal.

The cost for such a lovely motor was £600 squids. MOT'ed till Jan, which gives me time to sort out a few niggles.[/img]

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KP
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Post by KP » 02 Oct 2009, 08:59

Good news there gareth, sharing the driving makes life a lot easier, especially when you do a fair amount yourself i would imagine.

When the head comes off its the ideal time to get a new pump on and im sure there are forum members who have an old bosch knocking around, give her that low down oomph that is sometimes missing with the 306 having an interwarmer... and cheap to run with the veggie as well now at about 80p or less per litre...

XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan » 04 Oct 2009, 13:00

Picked up the engine last night. As is typical, the first rain we have had in over two weeks decided to tip down on me as i was trying to shift an engine and gearbox lump around in the dark :evil:

Placed in the back of Transit just behind the bulkhead, you couldnt even tell it was there as we drove back from Hatfield to Norwich. We had been to Legoland earlier and Shaun was at the Ace Cafe meet most of the day, so we finally arrived at around 8.30pm.

After much messing about we were on our way and arrived back to Norwich at 11.45pm.

This morning i took a closer look at the 'new' lump, which looked like this -

Image


Now its been my intention to remove the bits i need from this engine to make mine good again. Suspect is/was the turbocharger unit, and the clutch on mine is well past its sell by date, with 116k on the clock and travel up the top, and light slip in cold weather.

I had a look at the service history of the lump and it all checks out, not only that, i saw the car it came from which was very clean indeed, all good signs.

So i set about removing the turbo, a simple task in theory with the engine out, but it still took close to an hour!

The oil feed pipe is buried at the front of the engine, and the manifold/turbo cannot be removed complete, i ended up taking the turbo off the manifold first. Access was fiddly, so a near impossible task with engine in the car, far easier to take it out!

Something i noticed, the turbo compressor outlet hose join, the one which blew on mine was good shape on this, but had the original OE spec clips, whereas mine had jubilee clips, a sign of some work in the past, for what, who knows?

I was very happy with the turbo, condition wise it is as good as new, with virtually no play in the shaft, turns very freely and the compressor blades are only slightly pitted, which seems to be quite a common thing. No cracks on the turbo nor the wastegate flap area, a good thing!

The exhaust side of the turbo is actually a pretty good design, with the wastegate outlet cast separately to then join at the downpipe outlet, which helps with flow and reduces boost creep. Its just a shame the compressor side is a bit small.

Once the turbo was off, the manifold could then be removed. A couple of nuts were a bit loose. Once the manifold was off, it was inspected and found to be in good health too. You will notice i mention they are separate...i need confirmation from Jim on his spare turbocharger unit as i was sure they were cast together as one unit, but on this 99 V S2 engine, not so. I wont know if my one is the same till the engine is out.

The next area is the key to what i think may be the problem with mine. The manifold goes over a steel gasket, and behind the steel gasket is seperate composite gaskets over each port, possibly made of asbestos or similar.

The middle two gaskets were flaky, outer two not so bad. But it was clear that even on this low miles engine and not driven hard, there was definite signs of exhaust gas escaping past the gasket face and onto the cylinder head. The noise on this one would be minimal, and i am hoping mine is similar but worse!

Having seen this, i am pretty confident to say its the gasket blowing and not the manifold cracked. Because of this, the chances of my own turbo and manifold being in good condition has increased, but i couldnt take the risk of stripping it down and finding something more sinister.

Below are some more pictures of my progress this morning.


The turbocharger unit
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Turbocharger off
Image

Looking good in here.
Image

Manifold gaskets in place
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Close up of dodgy gasket
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Soot over the head core plug area to right of exhaust port.
Image

Rear of gasket, and semi circular area of soot from exhaust is obvious
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Steel gasket plate
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Exhaust manifold
Image

The manifold design is poor. They tried to make it compact and succeeded but the flow would be dreadful. I can see why you can get aftermarket ones. Huge potential for improvement in this area. With a bigger compressor and better manifold this engine would be doing close to 200bhp straight out the box.

The turboless engine now sits in my garage. Next job is to get the gearbox off to remove the low miles clutch.

In all honestly i may sell the engine on with either my current turbo or the original. I would love to keep a spare, but it will take up space and i need to claw back some of the cost thanks to a Peugeot purchase!

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DickieG
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Post by DickieG » 04 Oct 2009, 13:13

It very common for the exhaust manifold gasket to go on CT engines, the old CT turbo estate I had a few years ago had had them replaced just prior to me buying it.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 04 Oct 2009, 13:35

Excellent stuff Gareth :D :D
XantiaMan583 wrote:i need confirmation from Jim on his spare turbocharger unit as i was sure they were cast together as one unit, but on this 99 V S2 engine, not so.
I've just looked and my spare is separate (i.e. Turbo and manifold bolt together)..

Did you see the Activa V6 conversion and tell the owner to get some details up on here so we can all enjoy it!

XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan » 04 Oct 2009, 13:38

DickieG wrote:It very common for the exhaust manifold gasket to go on CT engines, the old CT turbo estate I had a few years ago had had them replaced just prior to me buying it.
Its a shame it is so common, but it doesnt make the job any easier, what a PITA design really. I've got a feeling this may be why mine has been looked at in the area and gone again. Its the sort of job where everything needed to be perfectly clean and flat and torqued up correctly, and with the engine insitu, this cannot be done properly.

The turbo has a pretty decent support below it which should help with preventing some flex you get with a turbo bolted to the head, but is possible the manifold studs are not beefy enough to hold the lot on well enough, part of the reason why some were loose and once they loosen the problem quickly gets worse, and of course performance will gradually drop too.

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DickieG
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Post by DickieG » 04 Oct 2009, 15:16

CitroJim wrote:Did you see the Activa V6 conversion and tell the owner to get some details up on here so we can all enjoy it!
I had a chat with the owner of the V6 Activa at the Ace Cafe', he intends to write an article in the not too distant future. As usual the coversion was doen by BL Auto's.

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KP
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Post by KP » 04 Oct 2009, 21:30

Looks like you don't hang about when it comes to new engines hey :D

Doesn't look too bad and can see what you mean about the good turbo design, first i've seen like that on anything other than a website for Roller bearing turbos.. Are you uprating it at all while its off Gareth as i recalled you said you may get this done??

I think if i can save up if mine ever has to come off again i'll look at those uprated ones as i've seen a stainless one recently on a dutch tuners website i think it was but maybe for a 406 sri or such like though not sure, could have been a dam good dream!!

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Citroenmad
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Post by Citroenmad » 04 Oct 2009, 23:14

You have certainly had a busy few days!

A good find with the engine, ideal since your needing the clutch etc.

The Peugeot looks very nice and im sure you will have it looking better than new in no time! Good little cars the 306s, DTurbo is a nice spec to have too.

Chris.
Last edited by Citroenmad on 04 Oct 2009, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.

Sl4yer
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Post by Sl4yer » 04 Oct 2009, 23:21

Gareth,

Are you sure that none of your problems are due to the increased boost?

I'm seriously thinking of getting mine remapped, mainly to help with fuel economy. I'd not like to break it as a result, since I can't afford to repair it! I suppose it would take a serious, regular thrashing to show up such problems though?

James

XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan » 05 Oct 2009, 07:22

Sl4yer wrote:Gareth,

Are you sure that none of your problems are due to the increased boost?

I'm seriously thinking of getting mine remapped, mainly to help with fuel economy. I'd not like to break it as a result, since I can't afford to repair it! I suppose it would take a serious, regular thrashing to show up such problems though?

James
No, i doubt it, i am only running 2-3psi more, and this new engine has not been tweaked, with signs of the gasket well on its way to going it seems its inevitable it will go eventually.

I think people underestimate this engine. All its power comes from the turbo but with a set up designed for low boost and smoothness not high power it will be restricted in the same way a small, poor design exhaust on a NASP car will hold back power.

The car doesnt get thrashed, it gets driven within its design parameters. I've never blown an engine or killed it in any way, just in case people think i have poor mechanical sympathy!

Gaskets do go regardless of how a car is driven, how else would this 65k miler, pootled around for most of its life and serviced by the book have the gasket blowing ? Its a design fault, the gasket isnt quite meaty enough for the application and it needs either an extra brace or larger studs holding the manifold on.

I cannot afford to upgrade the turbo, i am buying this 306 for the missus and there is not enough funds, unless of course someone buys this 65k engine and box from me once i've finished! But time will be up against me.

I also have another small dilemma. My old Xantia is now looking for a new home, and its a case of bad timing. Had i been offered it 2 weeks ago i would of taken it on, but thinking about it, it cannot be done. I am hoping the owner puts it up on here for sale, rather than weighing it as has been suggested. Its worth £450 to anyone and had so much work done to make it a well above average example, but thats the risk you take well you sell a car on, i would prefer not to know its fate when out of my hands.

Brigsygtt
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Post by Brigsygtt » 05 Oct 2009, 15:07

Is your old turbo d up for sale? Looked mint in the pics before. Im after a new runabout soon...

Fair play for sorting out the manifold gasket, Looks like a nightmare of a job!

XantiaMan
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Post by XantiaMan » 05 Oct 2009, 15:27

Brigsygtt wrote:Is your old turbo d up for sale? Looked mint in the pics before. Im after a new runabout soon...

Fair play for sorting out the manifold gasket, Looks like a nightmare of a job!
Hi mate,

Yes it is very shortly. The current owner mailed me but i cannot take it on. He wants roughly what he paid for it, and its supplied with a brand new Valeo clutch, if you are interested i will be happy to put you in touch.



I have a bit of good news, i will be getting the turbo uprated and it should be done by next week. So i really do need to shift this engine now!

It will have a bigger compressor wheel, and the housing machined to match. It should not need a new bearing, but will get if if needed, cost should be around £150. It would be silly not to get it done at this stage, i am keeping this car a long time after all.