Citrojim's Ka, Saxo and Bike Tales

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 04 Dec 2017, 06:23

Zel, I'm so sorry to hear about your close friend :( Fingers crossed the treatment will work and normal health will soon be restored...
Zelandeth wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 23:17
In happier news, I've dug out my old Philips CD deck for you Jim. You're welcome to use it to assist in getting yours up and going. From what I recall the innards of this should be largely similar to yours, the actual optical assembly etc should be identical.
Wonderful, thanks :D
Zelandeth wrote:
03 Dec 2017, 23:17
Also got to have a proper look at my old Sanyo one which is playing up...may bring that over too because I know you'll enjoy a look at it... probably be towards the end of the week though as I'm busy until Thursday I think.


Very happy to, you know me ;) Thursday will be perfect :)
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
04 Dec 2017, 00:43
You may have seen this, but masquerading on the FCF with the flimsiest of French car connections ie my eldest's Clio, I have now a bona fide French Car once more, and as the thread title suggests have joined the "Bargain Basement Club" and quite pleased about it too.
Excellent and well-bought Neil :D Welcome to the club!
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CitroJim
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Posts: 41565
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Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 05 Dec 2017, 18:39

Sally has just gone into car hospital to have a new exhaust fitted... The 350 mile jaunt around the West Country this weekend well and truly finished it off...

Our local mob quoted £107 for a complete cat-back system... I was happy with that and it's a small price to pay to have a job done that I hate doing...

Soon Sally is likely to be my only French car :shock:

My Pug of Love is for sale and for a very good reason too...

See my For Sale ad here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=59099

So soon, I'll have a French, Czech and an Indian/Japanese car :lol:

I get around the world a bit ;)
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Jim

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Zelandeth
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Zelandeth » 05 Dec 2017, 19:04

If it's still about at the end of the week and the weather cooperates happy to give it a quick wash, polish, wax, tyre dress and plastic black for you if that would be helpful Jim.
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1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 85 Sinclair C5. 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 75 AC Model 70.

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CitroJim
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Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 05 Dec 2017, 19:23

Zelandeth wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 19:04
If it's still about at the end of the week and the weather cooperates happy to give it a quick wash, polish, wax, tyre dress and plastic black for you if that would be helpful Jim.


Thanks Zel :) That's appreciated !

The exterior is not bad, it's the interior that really needs doing - Poor Robyn was sick in it once coming home from Uni and some of the stains still remain... Also, she used to treat it like a McDonald's and Costa coffee shop skip and that hasn't helped... Against that the fabric of the interior is perfect; it just needs a bloody good clean and valet...
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Michel
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Michel » 05 Dec 2017, 19:55

I've sent you a message about the 207 in another place Jim. It would do nicely as a 3rd car for me. Mrs Michel refuses point blank to drive the Ka...

I'd get my steam cleaning man to do the inside :)
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CitroJim
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x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 05 Dec 2017, 19:56

Michel wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 19:55
I've sent you a message about the 207 in another place Jim. It would do nicely as a 3rd car for me. Mrs Michel refuses point blank to drive the Ka...


Excellent Mike I shall look in that other place ;)
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Zelandeth
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Zelandeth » 05 Dec 2017, 21:54

A wet and dry vacuum is something I *really* need to add to my toolkit...
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Current fleet:
1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 85 Sinclair C5. 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 75 AC Model 70.

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CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41565
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 06 Dec 2017, 10:57

Zelandeth wrote:
05 Dec 2017, 21:54
A wet and dry vacuum is something I *really* need to add to my toolkit...


Yes, one tool I lack... They can be invaluable for many automotive jobs - as Alasdair demonstrated to me a few weeks ago...

I'm starting to think the issues I'm having with starting from hot/half-hot restarts on my Saxo may be related to the fuel pump...

I stumbled across this old thread on this very forum and that sort of strengthens my thoughts...

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=29398

A new one is just over £40 from the 'bay so I'm going to take a risk on one and see if it helps...
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Jim

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CitroJim
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Posts: 41565
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 07 Dec 2017, 19:29

Sally the Saxo is back with me and sporting a lovely new and quiet exhaust :)

She caused grief as there are no end of Saxo exhaust variants and the particular variant on Sally is now unobtainable..

So she ended up with a complete new system, including a new cat.... It was a little more expensive than I'd planned but it looks good, is beautifully fitted and carries a two year guarantee...

That little lot cost as much as the car did :lol:

Next job will be to fit the new fuel pump when it arrives...
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Jim

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CitroJim
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Posts: 41565
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 12 Dec 2017, 17:59

These past few days I've done nothing with cars at all - too cold! Except drive Sally the Saxo... She's proving extremely good in this adverse weather with a brilliant heater, excellenmt demisting and a sure-footedness in the old slippery stuff :)

She really is one very fine motor car...

The new fuel pump is here but I'm deferring fitting it until she's low on fuel... She's not far off full at the moment and it's never a good idea to go round swapping pumps with such a lot of fuel slopping around...

The new pump cost £40 and is a complete unit with fuel gauge sender and all - that's good as the fuel gauge is very pessimistic at the moment...
saxofuelpump.jpg
So instead of playing cars I'm playing vintage electronics and getting stuck into a couple of duff CD Players I have, first on the bench today was a vintage Philips CD150...
cdfixing.jpg
The test gear is pretty vintage too but it does the job. That baby oscilloscope does a remarkably good job...

Having great fun :) Not quite fixed yet but I'm on my way after studying exactly how it works...

The other CD Player I have for repair I'm having some trouble locating a service manual for it... The Philips was easy but the Sanyo I'm fixing for Zel is proving very tricky to find any information on at all...

I keep trying... And I'll succeed :)
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Jim

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Zelandeth
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1975 AC Model-70
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x 184

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Zelandeth » 12 Dec 2017, 21:35

That ties in with the issues I had finding data for it back when I got it. I *did* eventually find one - sadly it was a victim of the Great Hard Drive Corruption of 2007 it appears.

It's a complex beast of a thing so a manual would no doubt be helpful...
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1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 85 Sinclair C5. 93 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate, 75 AC Model 70.

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CitroJim
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Posts: 41565
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Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 13 Dec 2017, 05:22

Zelandeth wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 21:35
It's a complex beast of a thing so a manual would no doubt be helpful...


It will but if push comes to shove I'll just work from first principles...

Manuals used to be a luxury for me anyway but on complex things like CD Players they do help!
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Mandrake
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Mandrake » 13 Dec 2017, 10:02

What is the problem with the CD player Jim ? Difficulties with tracking I'm guessing ?

Repaired a few CD players back in the 90's, interesting work if you have the service data, but ultimately sometimes frustrating when the problem turns out to be a weak laser which you can't (economically) do much about, which is what happened to a lot of them...

Those early units all had manual tracking offset, gain adjustments etc..which modern players don't have. I remember a JVC player we had had a voice coil operated lens for fine adjustment and a belt driven DC motor operated sled for coarse adjustment - so there were two nested feedback loops for radial tracking!

The first feedback loop controlled the horizontal position of the lens, but if that one got too far to the side a second feedback loop pushed the belt driven carriage along to let the lens recenter itself. Radial tracking was usually sensed by two side by side optical sensors straddling the focal point of the lens (sometimes a 4 quadrant sensor) - if the lens was too far to the left or right the signal from the two sensors was imbalanced in amplitude and gave a tracking error signal to correct it. The tracking offset adjustment would let you correctly centre the lens radially to line up with the tracks and the gain adjustment affected the gain of the feedback loops and therefore their stability and ability to lock onto a challenging disc. (Such as one with a slight offset in the centre hole)

Then there was the focus loop, controlled by the "eye" signal, (raw data from the main sensor) which basically adjusted the height/focus of the lens to get the maximum high frequency detail from the eye signal! :) (Very much like simplistic video autofocus that adjusts focus to maximise video signal bandwidth and therefore detail) It also had a gain and offset adjustment for its feedback loop.

Initial focus is found by spinning up the disc then sweeping the focal adjustment of the lens up and down through it's full range using a sawtooth drive until an eye signal is recognised then the feedback control loop is switched in to take control from that point. If you deliberately put a disc in upside down so it can't focus you'll see the lens sweep up and down about 5 times before it gives up.

We had a "test" CD that was basically just a scratched CD that was challenging to play - when all the adjustments were right most players would play it, but when they weren't adjusted right, they would skip...a good confirmation that the factory recommended adjustments were indeed doing as expected.

Even when working properly the difference in tracking ability on challenging discs from one model of player to another was huge! Some would play flawlessly a damaged disc that other players wouldn't even recognise...

Another thing you'll find is that a lot of those older players really did not like playing CD-R discs - either not at all, or they would have great difficulty with them as the reflectivity of CD-R's is only about 70% of a commercial disc, so you need a lot of spare headroom in the laser output and sensor sensitivity for them to play. Some models had lots of optical headroom and could thus play them even though they predated the invention of CD-R's, others without much headroom could not!

Different colour CD-R's had different reflectivity as well. If I remember right the silver backed "blue" CD-R's were more reflective than the Green/Gold type and were thus easier to play on old CD players, (our JVC could play the blue ones well but struggled with the green/gold ones...) but unfortunately the blue ones didn't seem to last as well - a lot of the blue CD-R's I burnt in the early 2000's are now flaking away at the edges so the song/data at the edge of the disc is lost...
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

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CitroJim
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Posts: 41565
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Location: North Bucks
My Cars: Sally the white Saxo, Pixie the Sliver Pixo, a Giant TCR Bike, Giant TCR Pro Bike and a Giant gravel/adventure bike.
x 948

Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 13 Dec 2017, 10:46

No, the tracking, optics and all related are absolutely fine on this one Simon.. It reads the TOC perfectly and plays but there's no audio... Just a crackle at the start of playing a track (as the mute signal goes high) and on track changes...

All waveforms look normal but the reason for no audio is clear - the digital signal going into the DACs on both channels is static which will of course result in silence... You can se a little change to it at the start of play which is why you hear a little crackle! ... I'm currently tracing the signal path from the demodulator through to the error corrector and filter to see where it's all going wrong...

It's a voyage of great discovery as I'm having to learn exactly how these functions work... The structure of the data written on the CD is more complex than you might at first think...

I might even have to read the 'Red Book' to completely understand it all...

I will report back on how it goes....
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Re: Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Post by Mandrake » 13 Dec 2017, 11:53

Ah - interesting. Never came across a problem like that. Nearly every faulty CD player I encountered had an issue with either the laser unit, or the servo tracking systems. Very unusual that it is able to track and "play" the disc but no audio data is being provided to the DAC... I will be most interested to hear the result. :)

Yes the data structure on the disc is interesting - EFM (eight to fourteen ?) modulation.... I'm assuming that the eye signal looks good and detailed, and the tracking servo signals and lens position are stable ? Does it seem to fast forward and rewind ok ?

Interesting comment about the mute signal as well - usually if there are sufficient read errors that the error recovery can't sort out it will trigger the mute signal to avoid blasting your speakers with nasty pops and clicks...

Does the mute line activate if you touch the edge of the disc to deliberately slow it down ? If you slow the disc just enough on a working player it should mute the audio.
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive