Citrojim's Skoda, Saxo, 207 and Bike Tales

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 14 Nov 2009, 21:02

Not the best day for it but I'm happy to say the engine is now all ready to be lifted out. It was cold and wet work but apart from the exhaust flange and removing the flex-plate bolts (both of which are two handed jobs), all is now ready :D :D :D

Weather-wise, it seems us in the middle of the country escaped rather lightly compared to some other parts of the country.
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Post by vince » 15 Nov 2009, 09:51

Im still waiting for it to clear enough to get my ABS sensor back in. Its been cold and rainy up here for about 2 weeks now :roll:
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Post by red_dwarfers » 15 Nov 2009, 11:38

Next door was having their roof retiled/felted or something that involved having all the tiles removed...not the best time for all this wind and rain. Added to that, part of the scaffolding flew off and smashed through a few of our tiles then was sweeped up over the top of our roof and come to land a couple of houses up :shock: Quite an eventful evening running around with plastic sheeting and buckets :lol:
The following day our house was on the local BBC News - Spotlight 8)
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 15 Nov 2009, 14:50

Oh dear Kev :twisted: sounds like it was really bad down your way :cry:

Vince, that's because you live "oop noorf" :lol:

Today has been an absolutely beautiful day, no wind, sunshine all day and warm too.

Toby arrived just as I'd got the exhaust manifold disconnected and within the hour we had the engine and gearbox sitting on the rug in the garage. No dramas at all except for when we were lowering the engine down onto its support blocks I managed to get a mouthful of coolant from the header tank hose :evil: Anti-freeze with bittering agents in it taste HORRIBLE and it has taken two cups of tea and a curry to take the taste away :lol: :lol:

Toby, you've been a start today and great company :D Thanks hugely for all your help!

Now to pull the gearbox apart....
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Post by myglaren » 15 Nov 2009, 15:06

CitroJim wrote: I managed to get a mouthful of coolant from the header tank hose :evil: Anti-freeze with bittering agents in it taste HORRIBLE and it has taken two cups of tea and a curry to take the taste away :lol: :lol:


A likely excuse. I believe you though :P
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Post by lexi » 15 Nov 2009, 15:23

we had the engine and gearbox sitting on the rug in the garage


Sound like a right pampered V6 that one :lol:
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 15 Nov 2009, 18:55

lexi wrote:Sound like a right pampered V6 that one :lol:


I guess by engine standards it is lexi :D Sitting in a nice warm garage on an oil soaked rug rather than a cold engine bay!

Image

Luckily the rug is past domestic service but I still hope the engine will not disgrace itself by leaking anything on it. It's already in my bad books for spilling coolant on me. My fault, I should have drained the block :roll:

Today has been an excellent day :D It was really great to have Toby's company and his very able assistance. We did, as the corner of the picture shows, get the gearbox stripped but we encountered a problem with the big slotted nut. My special tool is not quite up to the job and it came apart at the welds :twisted: A MKII version is in planning...

After that we called it a day and I took Toby for a spin in my Activa around a few roundabouts in Milton Keynes and showed him the sights, such as they are...

Then we went for a quick spin in my V6.

We then had a look around Toby's absolutely stunningly gorgeous Alfa 166 V6. That car is just beauty on wheels; an Italian 406 Coupe. You have to give it to the Italians, they do make some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous cars; shame the electrics are not quite in the same league :lol: I could lust after an Alfa...

All in all, a brilliant day :D Shame it fell on the same weekend as the NEC but there'll be another Classic Car Show next year.

Toby, thanks again for all your help today :D
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 15 Nov 2009, 19:57

I've just been idly looking at the dismantled gearbox and noted something very interesting that may reinforce why regular oil changes are critical to a long and healthy life. It's been educational to strip a 'box that has done a few hundred miles since a rebuild.

The first thing to note is that the inside of the 'box looks absolutely pristine, like new whereas on the first strip it looked very dirty and grey. Clearly the detergent properties of the old oil were all gone but more telling is this. New oil is quite sticky and it clings to vertical surfaces for ever like a thin film of ice almost.

The old oil does not do this. I reckon the old oil had lost all of it's body and was causing the lubrication films to break down under temperature and pressure and this was the prime reason why the very heavily loaded output bearing failed.

LT71141 may be an expensive oil but it's still far cheaper than a rebuild!
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Post by Toby_HDi » 15 Nov 2009, 22:11

CitroJim wrote:Toby, you've been a start today and great company Very Happy Thanks hugely for all your help!


Not a problem, was an absolute pleasure. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and learnt a great deal. I must thank you for a tasty lunch too!

I'm also starting to have thoughts about Activas again now that I've experienced one :twisted:

CitroJim wrote:I could lust after an Alfa...


I can understand why. I should have taken you out in it, it's quick and sounds fantastic as you heard. I may have to post some pictures after its had a wash if I may.

Once again Jim, my thanks to you for a very enjoyable and educational day
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Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
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2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 16 Nov 2009, 21:46

Indeed Toby, I should have had a little ride in the Alfa but my V6 was watching and she can get jealous :lol:

Did you find your way to the A34 OK?

Yesterday work ended with me finding the slotted nut was very tight and my special tool broke under the strain. Well, the tool proper did not break but the welds on the nut gave out. My bad :twisted:

This evening I made a MK2 version of the tool by sacrificing a cheap 22mm socket and cutting slots in it.

Image

The nut was still FT even with this tool and even with my long breaker I could not move it. I then had a bit of an idea and remembered that ages ago I'd bought a cheap electric impact gun from Aldi for some silly price and had never used it.

It got used this evening with complete success :D It made the nut appear hand-tight!

That done, it was a simple enough task to press the pinion shaft out from the bearing inner races and one outer race happy drifted out using a drift and hammer (with care) but the other inner race would not move as there was insufficient land for the drift to work against. I needed to make up a mandrel to press it out and made a remarkable discovery. I had an old Peugeot 106 wheel bearing laying by the press and this turned out to be exactly the right size to work as a mandrel to press out the troublesome race :D :D What a stroke of luck...

Next task is to install the new bearings on the pinion and reassemble generally. I need to get a torque wrench that will go up to 150 Nm as the tightness of the slotted nut will be setting the pre-load on the bearings and I reckon having the right pre-load is critical here.

Barring any showstoppers, weather permitting, the car should be back in running order by Sunday :D

I'm very happy this evening...
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Post by Toby_HDi » 16 Nov 2009, 22:37

CitroJim wrote:I'm very happy this evening...


Excellent Jim, coming on a treat. If you find you need someone to help drop the engine back in then give me a shout.

CitroJim wrote:Indeed Toby, I should have had a little ride in the Alfa but my V6 was watching and she can get jealous Laughing

Did you find your way to the A34 OK?


Ahh I see, well we couldn't have that :lol:

Yes I did Jim, you're directions were perfect and I have to say it was a much better route than long tedious motorways. Had me grinning after that little route to the A34 and only caught traffic at the top of said A34.

On another note, I've been reading into the 4HP20 and discovered that the Alfa 166 Sportronics use them! Albeit with a manual mode added on. Not only that but I have spotted one that has a failed box :twisted:

And I'm also on the look out for an Activa, for that I blame you! (in the nicest possible way)
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Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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Post by Deanxm » 16 Nov 2009, 23:28

Looking good Jim, shame about the unplanned learning curve but on the plus side you seem to be pulling these V's out quicker and quicker each time, im sure you are almost getting the engine out and back in faster than the average man can do a heater matrix now :lol:

Hope its smooth sailing from here now.

D
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Post by xantia_v6 » 16 Nov 2009, 23:31

CitroJim wrote:Next task is to install the new bearings on the pinion and reassemble generally. I need to get a torque wrench that will go up to 150 Nm as the tightness of the slotted nut will be setting the pre-load on the bearings and I reckon having the right pre-load is critical here.

Very good progress Jim. Did you play hookey? I have a torque wrench here that according to the box goes up to 210 Nm. Bought for doing the rear hub nuts on the E-type (turned out to be useless for that, but that is another story).

I could drop it off tomorrow evening if it will speed things along. It will be very convenient if we get it back on the road before gritting starts around here/
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 17 Nov 2009, 08:15

No hookey played Mike 8) I'm far too busy at work for that :( With Toby's excellent help, such good progress was made on Sunday that last evening I had plenty of time to concentrate on the nut :D

No worries on the torque wrench as I've found an alternative. The Citroen manual says tighten to 40Nm and then tighten a further 30 degrees. I have the tools for that...

Pleased you had a good run home Toby, the A4321 would be geat without that stifling 50 limit on it :twisted:

So, thinking of an Activa then :D 8) Be careful as good ones are a bit thin on the ground now. Most important on any Activa is to look for dry rams. Everything else can be sorted fairly economically.

The 4HP20, apart from its PSA applications, was used in big Renaults, the Mercedes V Class and of course the Alfas. They're not interchangeable though as they all use different castings.

Interesting on the 166 with a duff gearbox. What's the symptoms? At least you know how to fix a 4HP20 now :wink:
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Post by Toby_HDi » 17 Nov 2009, 13:30

Indeed it would, even down here they seem to stick 50 limits on decent roads where they are not needed.

Indeed, luckily I have FCF and your excellent buying guide to help should I go to look at one.

Indeed, I was surprised to discover they were used in all sorts of applications. Symptoms of this Alfa was dash light on, dropping into safety mode. The oil was changed (obviously partly, as we know) as the light was thought to mean oil was overheating. It's been stood for a while but would sometimes select all gears fine and other times only 3rd and reverse before its lay up. Was started last week and would only select 3rd or reverse.

I have to say I'm tempted, the only thing catching me out would be making the special tools up and pressing out any bearings.
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Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate