Citrojim's Pixo, Saxo and Cycling Tales

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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CitroJim
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 03 Dec 2016, 19:54

Seems the colder it is the better they start Dave... As long as glowplugs and valve clearances are good... I reckon the pump is more efficient at pumping cold - and therefore slightly thicker - diesel.. Have you ever noticed they need just a little more spinning when hot to start?

I've wondered why that is the case for years and once asked a long-experienced diesel engineer who spent his days rebuilding and testing pumps, mainly Bosch... Hot vs. cold fuel viscosity was his conclusion. Every Bosch pumped 1.9TD I've owned has been the same...

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by demag » 03 Dec 2016, 19:58

Cold weather denser air? Maybe?

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 03 Dec 2016, 20:05

Yes, that is most likely to contribute too Dave...

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by RichardW » 03 Dec 2016, 21:18

Oddly though the 1.7TD used to start without plugs after even a good while stood - thought there was something wrong with my first Xantia 1.9TD when it wouldn't start hot without the plugs after coming from BX TDs!!

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 04 Dec 2016, 05:13

Ahh, the 1.7 would have had a Lucas pump I expect Richard... A far superior pump in all respects. Plus the 1.7 I believe had a higher compression ratio which in turn made starting less reliant on good glowplugs.

All the 1.7s I've had were the same. A brilliant engine...

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by RichardW » 04 Dec 2016, 15:29

Nope, both mine were Bosch pumped....!

Edit...I think.... I'm not so sure about the second one I had, might have been a Lucas - didn't have it for that long!

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by demag » 05 Dec 2016, 16:24

Err so a few pages back we were talking plips. :roll:
Jim are these 90's cars programmable without a lexia? There are a few complete plips available on the bay and I was wondering if they can be programmed with the old button push and ignition key twirling method?

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 05 Dec 2016, 16:28

It depends on the plip. If the car is a S2 Xantia it will need to be programmed with a Lexia, so as to introduce it to the car (all keys will need to be done at the same time, as any that are not done will be 'forgotten'). Once this has been done the central locking bit can be done (IIRC turn the key to 'M' position and then press/hold a button until the locks react), as now the car will accept an input from the key.
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 05 Dec 2016, 16:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 05 Dec 2016, 16:34

Dave, as James says... If it's like the S2 Xantia (i.e. RF at 432MHz rather than Infra Red and has an RFID chip in the key for the immobilser) then it's a Lexia job and additionally you'll need the confidential code for the CPH... If you have no keypad then the immobiliser is more than likely an RFID one...

Else as for the S1 Xantia using the procedure that James describes...

RF plips can be identified by having no forward facing LED lens and a generally much longer range...

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by spider » 05 Dec 2016, 20:12

Regarding hot / cold starting... XUD units:

In my experiences:

The 1.8 N/A and the 1.8TD both tended to start immediately (one turn) hot or cold once the appropriate pre-heat had taken place.

The 1.9 N/A would start immediately hot or cold as well.

The 1.9 TD would start almost immediately when cold but need about 2 to 3 turns (guestimate on crank movement) when hot then it would fire up.


My thoughts on this:

1. I think the compression rate is a tad higher on the TD 1.9 vs TD 1.8 although I've not actually looked.

2. There might be a difference with the mechanical advance 1.9TD vs electronic advance 1.9TD although to be honest (based on comparing a 306 to a 406) its not noticeable for starting.

3. The 406 and Xantia 1.9TD nearly always have a Bosch pump (always electronic on 406) I understand early Xantia's were like the 405 mechanical Bosch pump

4. 306 (and I expect the ZX too!) the first shape ones had a Bosch pump for the turbo engines and typically Lucas for the non-turbo (about 80% were Lucas at a guess) , where as at shape change (late 'P' plate for the 306) 99% of TD units had the Lucas pump and all the N/A units had a Bosch pump. All are mechanical advance on these. Not going to mention the DW8 here as its not part of the discussion although I can if warranted. ;)

5. Smaller cars with the 1.8 NA unit did not have the oil cooler fitted which may explain its 'interesting trick' of closing clearances up. I expect this combined with no temp gauge (Visa / 205 non turbo) did not help matters too much. I do note that when this unit was popped into larger cars it always had the cooler fitted though, even the non turbo units.

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by chinkostu » 05 Dec 2016, 22:53

demag wrote:Err so a few pages back we were talking plips. :roll:
Jim are these 90's cars programmable without a lexia? There are a few complete plips available on the bay and I was wondering if they can be programmed with the old button push and ignition key twirling method?
I got hold of a NOS plip with a cut key already, went to citroen and got a key insert for my locks, popped old blade out, put mine in and used 3rd key to sync both remotes to car. It's a fiddly procedure and took me ages to get right.

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by demag » 06 Dec 2016, 01:50

Sounds interesting Stu. [emoji39]

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by lexi » 06 Dec 2016, 21:56

My hdi is not the most impressive cold starter. Too many turns for my liking and I have new Beru glowplugs . I have listened to others starting and they too seem to chug a bit. I think petrols seem to be more eager to start nowadays with their high power leccy systems.

This Hdi thing of the ecu not letting the car start if the starter is slow? Well thanks very much. My car might have started but you stopped it? :lol:

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by mickeymoon » 06 Dec 2016, 22:54

Yes. It's a common fault on the HDi. My Berlingo did the slow starting thing. Replacing the starter motor solved it and it starts first turn now. I know of plenty of others who've done the same.

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia Activa, 1.9TD and Bike Tales

Post by CitroJim » 07 Dec 2016, 05:46

Yes, even in an old-school diesel like the 1.9TD starter speed makes a big difference - since putting a new battery on Gabriel the difference has been clear...