Citrojim's Saxo and Cycling Tales

[Hell Razor5543]

Thanks Jim, are you sure that's the right code though ? According to the following page, the HR78X is a tapered seat.

Got me thinking now Simon!

I must admit I took the ebay ad from ECP at face value really. They said they were right and I didn't really question it.

ECP bites a forum members bum ... again

Apparently Asda are now selling car tyres. I decided to see what options they had, so I typed in Gracies' registration. Unfortunately their lookup system is wrong, as it said I should use 205/60/R15 tyres. Gracie is a 90HP HDi Xantia, and Citroen say she uses 185/65/R15 tyres. Ah well.

[Northern_Mike]

Those things are often wrong. It tells me the Berlingo should use 165/65/15.

It should be 185/65/15, though now it runs 195/65/15 on C5 rims. (Yes, I have told the insurance company)

Wrong for the C5 too....

[CitroJim]

Just ordered a set of Bosch FR8KDC

Car started instantly this morning and ran to work like a dream...

[Mandrake]

Just ordered a set of Bosch FR8KDC

Car started instantly this morning and ran to work like a dream...

You beat me to it but I was going to say Bosch FR8KDC is a safe conservative choice.

I'm no expert on spark plugs by any means, before the V6 I've not really paid any attention to the fine details of spark plug specs and didn't really understand heat range etc before that... I've only used three different kinds in the ES9J4 in old V6:

NGK BKR6EIX
Bosch FR7DC+
Bosch FR8KDC

The NGK were in the car when I got it. They were OK but did have minor problems with fouling from short trips, but because I don't know how long they were in there its hard to judge how good they are as they could have been very old. They were only single electrode types.

I replaced them with the FR7DC+ which were bought from GSF as the recommended type for that engine. (And the only ones they had in stock at the time) They were awful and in less than 1000 miles fouled severely to the point where the insulator tips were carbon coated and causing a misfire due to the spark tracking across the insulator. When I checked the fine print on GSF it said "suitable for LPG"... (LPG burns hotter and works best with a slightly colder plug than petrol) They were also single electrode types.

I then replaced them with the FR8KDC (bought from mister auto I think) and had no further problems with them at all - they were pulled out twice for inspection in the remainder of the time I had the car and the insulators and electrodes looked absolutely clean and perfect.

I'll very likely go for the FR8KDC when I do the plugs on the new V6 - although I'm going to pull out one of the front plugs to see what kind are in there now before I make my final decision. I'm tempted by the Bosch four electrode types, but obviously the correct heat range and seal type! (Also resistor type and correct reach)

Putting single electrode plugs in a waste spark system like this seems like false economy to me - as it's sparking twice as often as it needs to, electrode erosion is twice as rapid as well. The dual electrode plugs (all other things being equal) basically double the life time of the plug at least in terms of electrode erosion, thus bring the waste spark system back to "normal" spark plug life times. A single electrode plug in this application is only going to see half the expected lifetime...

[CitroJim]

Thanks Simon They were what came out of the engine and as they'd done well over 30,000 miles of good service I am happy to use them again.

Just wish I'd not taken ECP at their word and I also just wish I didn't have to change them again so soon

Anyone want a set of 6 barely used HR78X?

[Mandrake]

If their search option recommended those spark plugs to you on the basis of your registration plate or engine type, can you not get a refund based on "not fit for purpose" or "mis-sold" ?

[Hell Razor5543]

If their search option recommended those spark plugs to you on the basis of your registration plate or engine type, can you not get a refund based on "not fit for purpose" or "mis-sold" ?

Fair comment. If you were to get Citroens' specification requirements for the spark plugs, and take them with you, you can prove ECP gave mis-leading information (especially if you were to print out the details from the ECP website, and drive to their location in the Xantia in question). The exception would be if the plugs they supplied superseded the original spark plugs.

[Mandrake]

Fair comment. If you were to get Citroëns' specification requirements for the spark plugs, and take them with you, you can prove ECP gave mis-leading information (especially if you were to print out the details from the ECP website, and drive to their location in the Xantia in question). The exception would be if the plugs they supplied superseded the original spark plugs.

You shouldn't need to go quite that far - a print out showing that type of plug was recommended by their website should be all that's needed.

There are dozens of variations of each spark plug family where most of them are "compatible" to varying degrees, for example different heat ranges, whether they have a resistor or not, electrode number and material etc... They might not last as long or work as well but you probably wouldn't be able to get a refund just on it being a slightly different heat range than recommended for example.

But taper seat versus gasket seat is pretty clear cut - they're not mechanically compatible and could cause engine damage long term (burning at the very narrow contact point) so there is no doubt that they mis-sold them if indeed a number plate/engine search on the website told the customer to buy that type.

I'd certainly phone to complain to get a refund if it was me, more on principle than for cost reasons. It might also prevent some other innocent party buying and fitting the wrong spark plugs if they're made aware of the mistake...

[CitroJim]

I'd certainly phone to complain to get a refund if it was me, more on principle than for cost reasons. It might also prevent some other innocent party buying and fitting the wrong spark plugs if they're made aware of the mistake...

I will be doing just that Simon...

[CitroJim]

Went to Nottingham today in the V6 to take Siany back to Uni. It's been a lovely day and the V6 was an absolute delight in all ways. She's running like a clock and using less petrol now. A real pleasure to drive

I'm not happy with ECP. Got my replacement plugs today only to find one damaged. It was unboxed and loose. The electrodes are bent, the washer is distorted and there's thread damage. Looks like it was dropped from a great height...

ECP are going to be on the receiving end of a stern complaint tomorrow

[Mandrake]

Sorry to hear that Jim, that's not good service at all, especially after selling you the wrong ones in the first place!

Interesting that it's using less petrol now, it will be interesting to see how the replacement FR8KDC compare to the currently fitted ones...

[Northern_Mike]

It's pretty shoddy service. This is why I always use Halfords for plugs and (usually) tools. I've never had a problem with returning anything. I realise they can be a bit pricy sometimes but for the convenience, it's sometimes worth it. I once returned 3 plug spanners in one day and they didn't question me!

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[Hell Razor5543]

I'm not happy with ECP. Got my replacement plugs today only to find one damaged. It was unboxed and loose. The electrodes are bent, the washer is distorted and there's thread damage. Looks like it was dropped from a great height...

ECP are going to be on the receiving end of a stern complaint tomorrow

And that is why citronut won't used them! I personally haven't had any problems with them. On one occasion I ordered a rear brake kit, only to find (at the store) the bag was torn, and bits were missing. The guy on the counter got on the phone, and I got the replacement set that afternoon (and the counter guy said he had checked it when it arrived, and checked it again in front of me!). Mind you, I wonder if he would have been so helpful if I didn't spot the damage until I got home?

[CitroJim]

I shan't be using them again in a hurry

I'm not well. Gone down with quite a rotten coldly sort of nondescript virusy thing and only just surfaced. Been resting all day...

I must be bad. I'm even giving karate a miss this evening

So I've not yet got hold of ECP to register my unhappiness. At the moment I just can't be bothered..

All weekend plans are now off.

[Northern_Mike]

I hope it's the same strain of whatever it is that I had last week Jim. I felt rotten for about 18 hours then was fine again.

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