Citrojim's Activa, 207 and Bike Tales

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Mandrake
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by Mandrake » 04 Jun 2013, 16:41

No, no wiring runs to the ignition switch required, all the wiring modifications are entirely contained within the engine bay fuse box. :) Apart from the single 12v run from the right hand end of the fuse box which is maybe 10 inches long they're all short runs of a few inches just between the two relays.

The power that normally supplies the starter solenoid comes from the ignition switch, goes to the starter inhibit relay contacts which was the 2nd relay in my fuse box, from there it goes to the starter. What we do is cut the wire from the ignition switch to the inhibit relay and insert our new relay there.

The coil ground is wired in parallel with the coil ground of the existing relay, the wire coming from the ignition switch now supplies the coil plus of the new relay. The normally open contacts of the the new relay now go between a new heavy 12V supply (via the built in fuse on my fuse holder) and the contacts of the original inhibit relay. Thus when the key is turned to starter the new relay turns on, 12v from a direct feed goes through the new relay to the inhibit relay to the starter...so the ignition key now only has to power the relay coil instead of the starter solenoid, so even if the contacts are quite burnt it will work reliably.

It's very similar to the cabin blower relay mod in the Series 1 Xantia.

I'll check my emails tonight to find which relay and relay socket I ordered, I found a dinky socket that was perfect for the job, having the fuse holder built in saves a lot of extra spade terminals, wire, insulation, fuse holder and faffing about, and makes it more physically robust. I think I documented some of my relay modification in one of my other threads too, (no pictures though) I'll see if I can find it.
Last edited by Mandrake on 04 Jun 2013, 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by Mandrake » 04 Jun 2013, 16:46

Ben82 wrote:
Mandrake wrote:I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... :lol: I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking... :twisted:


This might help :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etzEu7cjkis

I don't talk like that Ben. :P
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Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by Mandrake » 04 Jun 2013, 20:53

superloopy wrote:
Mandrake wrote:Mine is a series 2 and I had no spare relay sockets either, hence why I bought a cord style relay socket with a built in fuse holder, and threw it into the empty space in the box below the other relays with short fly leads :)

I'm off next week so if I remember I'll see if I can lift the fuse box off and take some photos.


Cheers Simon, that will help a lot. Meanwhile i'll source a relay and wiring (what capacity?). Is that all i need? Are there no wiring runs to the ignition switch at all, sounds like its all at the fusebox end? And ... if you forget, i'll remind you :-)

Apoligies Jim, not really relevant to your blog.


I'm sure Jim won't mind his thread being derailed for the umpteenth time, last time I derailed it we were talking about central heating boilers so this is at least about Citroen's, and one of his favourite models. :-D

I checked through my photos and found that I had already taken before and after photos when I did the job which I never posted to the forum. They don't show precise wiring (use the pin numbers on the relay sockets and Jim's wiring diagram for that) but it does at least show some physical context. So here they are. First a view of my fuse box to confirm whether its the same as yours:

Image

On mine the brown relay second from the left is the starter inhibit relay (1005 on Jim's diagram) and I have no spare relay sockets as I too have headlight washers. To confirm its the right relay unplug it and it should disable the starter - you won't even get a click in the start position if you've pulled the right relay.

Wiring under the relays:

Image

Yes all the wires to the brown relay are green :roll: so go by the pin numbers on the socket and if necessary use a multimeter to confirm the voltages do what is expected.

Here is the after view with the new relay/fuse fitted:

Image

The two small wires going to the same terminal on the brown relay is ground for coil negative, in the after shot you can see that it also goes to the new relay coil negative. The large green wire going between the old and new relay is the wire that comes from the ignition switch which has been cut, the ignition switch end goes to coil + on the new relay, the end going to the original relay goes to the non fused relay contact on the new relay. You can see the green fuse plugged into the relay itself on the left hand side, I think I used 30 amp, although I believe the starter solenoid only draws just under 10 amps so 20 amps is probably fine.

You can see a red wire from the new relay sneaking off towards the right, that's the new 12v feed, and goes to the fused relay contact. We'll come to that in a moment...

Here is another view where I've taped the relay and socket up together to make sure the fuse stays in its socket and the relay also stays in its socket (although both are very tight anyway) and is about to be stuffed down inside the box:

Image

As you can see, plenty of room for it. I could have wrapped it in a bit of foam but I was too lazy. :lol: Again the red wire is seen to snake off to the right. So where did I get the new 12v feed from without running a new wire from the battery ?

From here:

Image
This white plug plugs up into the underneath of the right hand section where the small fuses are, towards the front of the car. Here is another view:

Image

On my car this wire seems to feed a fuse slot that doesn't have a fuse and isn't actually used, and goes back directly to the battery. Be careful removing this white plug, it has a clip that holds it in that is not obvious and is quite fiddly to release - I broke the clip on mine before I even realised there was a clip. :oops:

Even though it doesn't seem to be used, what I did was to cut the wire an inch down from the plug, and use 3 spade terminals with sheaths, one "piggy back" connector and two spades to go on it to make a 3 way junction, then in addition to the sheath on each spade I wrapped the whole 3 way junction with a few layers of electrical tape to make extra sure it couldn't short to anything then pushed the plug back into its socket on the under side of the fuse tray, with the new red wire running across to the new relay.

Releasing and tipping the fuse tray over enough to get underneath is fiddly and there isn't much spare wire length to work with either, so this is the hardest part of the job, by comparison actually fitting the new relay is a dawdle.

Here's the relay with built in fuse I used:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/170

And I used this flying socket:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/180

As well as that I used standard spade/blade terminals, insulating sheaths, and wire also from the same supplier. You want 2mm^2 (squared) wire gauge, and terminals that will take 1.5 - 2.5mm^2 wire:

Female blade connector 030204:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/1

Male blade connector 030102:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/3

Insulators 030503:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/2

The piggy back terminal I used was 030402:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/5

Of course you need a crimping tool too. A cheap one is fine:

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/471

Hopefully that gives a better idea of what needs to be done. :)
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1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by myglaren » 04 Jun 2013, 21:43

Mandrake wrote:
Ben82 wrote:
Mandrake wrote:I'm a little bit confused as to what a Kiwi accent sounds like now Jim, after 4 years surrounded by Scottish accents in day to day life and bombarded by English accents on the Telly... :lol: I've never had a typical strong Kiwi accent, so I'm told, and when I do occasionally hear a Kiwi accent on TV it sounds like, well, an accent instead of normal accent free speaking... :twisted:


This might help :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etzEu7cjkis

I don't talk like that Ben. :P


I bet you don't sing like her either :)

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by Mandrake » 05 Jun 2013, 09:19

myglaren wrote:I bet you don't sing like her either :)


I know who she is guys :lol:

Not my kind of music... :wink:
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Post by addo » 05 Jun 2013, 10:04

No; I'd put you more with the iPhone users in music taste; probably "quirky person with piano" - either Ben Folds or Regina Spektor.
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 05 Jun 2013, 17:16

Mandrake wrote:I'm sure Jim won't mind his thread being derailed for the umpteenth time, last time I derailed it we were talking about central heating boilers so this is at least about Citroen's, and one of his favourite models. :-D


Nope, not a problem at all Simon :-D Very good to see how you did yours...
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 09 Jun 2013, 18:26

Yesterday I washed my two cars. I thought that was it for car washing this weekend...

Sian's Nissan Pixo is due an MOT so this afternoon she called round so I could do a pre-MOT on it.

I found no problems but we both agreed it could do with a good valet inside. It looked a bit like a McDonald's skip and had straw in it. It was also a bit mucky outside so we set to between us and tidied and hoovered it inside and washed it outside.

A great bit of father/daughter bonding :-D very enjoyable!

The Pixo is now four years old and after it's spruce-up it looks like a brand-new car.

It may be a cheap Suzuki Alto clone made in Mumbai but I've got to say it's jolly well made and is standing the test of time very well. The paint is particularly good and hide the number plate and you'd have a job distinguishing it from a brand-new car...

Earlier I went to see Chris (570) and amongst other things we tried to see if an ES9 engine would fit into a Mazda RX-8. Sadly we now know it won't. The cooling system presents intractable difficulties as well as the overall engine being a bit too big to clear the subframe.

I have some pictures of our attempt and I'll get them up on the server at some point.

All in all, a very good day.. The run over to Chris's in the XM was incredibly enjoyable as was a trip out in the Activa last evening...
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jun 2013, 15:56

It been a very quiet time on the car front. I've not been doing much really, generally taking it very easy and very much better for it too...

I did give the Activa, now firmly established as daily driver, an oil and filter change but done precious little else except work since then.

Today has been gorgeous and for one coincided with my day off (I work part-time and have Wednesdays off) so being it was nice I felt like a bit of gentle spannering and attacked a problem I've known about on the XM for a while - a seized retainer on the spare wheel carrier. It meant that the spare wheel was impossible to drop out of it's carrier if I should have needed it on a journey so it was concerning me a little.

I'd been Plus-Gassing the thread of the retainer for a few weeks now and today, after grinding up a tool to fit the slot in the top of the screw in the boot that i could get a decent bar onto the thing finally loosened and undid :-D

I was still stuck because the spring-loaded safety catch was also seized solid and more Plus-Gas and Percy-Whatsit was needed to release that. Eventually it did and I could check the condition of the spare wheel and jack - both good...

I tried to remove the whole carrier but the hinge bolt is very tight at the end of it's thread so for today that job was abandoned for next time as my energy budget was a bit depleted by then.

I gave both the retainer thread and the safety catch a good greasing and am happy now I can get at my spare should I ever need it.

Earlier I woke the Xantia V6 briefly from hibernation and took it out for a warm up and battery charge. The car has been untouched for about three weeks and only just started. I fear the battery is getting a bit weak so for the winter I'll likely replace it.

On the drive I felt a small clunk and didn't really think or take a lot of notice until I went to pull away at a junction and was amazed at how gutless the car was - the gearbox had dropped into third emergency and I could see the sport and snow lights flashing.

An ELIT check on returning home revealed the reason to be an intermittency in the multi-function switch that tells the ECU what gear is selected on the gear selector lever.. It cleared OK and touch-wood it's not re-appeared despite much exercising of the selector from P to 1 and back again. Maybe just lack of use.

These old Citroens don't like being laid-up at all :twisted: Still, she'll be back in daily use once the winter returns...
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by bxzx16v » 19 Jun 2013, 16:11

I had the same problem Jim with the spare wheel carrier on the Zx , seized solid , I don't think it had ever been down from new . Sorted now though , next job is to remove the spare wheel carrier and give it a good clean up and some bilt hamber goodies will treat the rusty bits and a good coat of satin black .

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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jun 2013, 19:25

bxzx16v wrote:give it a good clean up and some bilt hamber goodies will treat the rusty bits and a good coat of satin black .


I think I'll be giving Mr. Bilt-Hamber some of my money in exchange for his very fine products soon Mark...

I really want to preserve my XM and will be doing much the same as you...
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by KP » 23 Jun 2013, 00:28

I'd recommend two thugs for the carrier Jim :)

1. Take it off and strip it back to metal and give a good paint them layering in stonechip paint.
2. Give the spare a really good clean but put it in a big bag. Preferably a rubble sack type affair. It stops so much crud building up on it and makes it less messy job should you need to replace it and you can then chuck in some old gardening gloves for if it ever happens as they would be safe in the bag :)

I guess it's one reason newer cits have a wheel well instead or tyre foam these days :(

As for battery's I'd measure up and get the largest Bosche S5 you can fit into the space from ecp using one of the 25%+ discount codes as they seem to be the cheapest around and delivered. The S5 comes from the FF crowd as they have a might big drain on batteries during cranking after the cabin heat/cool has been used while parked :(
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 23 Jun 2013, 11:13

KP wrote:I'd recommend two thugs for the carrier Jim :)


Kray twins OK for that Will? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, good tips indeed..

The V6 battery has done well as I believe it came from the previously owner's DS and wasn't new then and it's done me well for three years or so..

Ran down to Somerset and back in the XM to see dad yesterday.

It was a good but knackering day...

Good for spotting. Two Xantias, two BXs, one DS, one 2CV and finally an XM!

All but one Xantia and the XM were seen in deepest Somerset. The XM was seen in Buckingham and the second second Xantia near Milton Keynes...
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by CitroJim » 23 Jun 2013, 13:32

One thing I forgot to mention is the effect replacing the oxygen sensor has had on economy - for the better :-D

The difference is significant.
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Re: Citrojim's Xantia and XM Tales

Post by Chris570 » 23 Jun 2013, 21:46

CitroJim wrote:One thing I forgot to mention is the effect replacing the oxygen sensor has had on economy - for the better :-D

The difference is significant.


hint noted

i'll do mine
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