Citrojim's Ka, Saxo and Bike Tales

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

Moderators: RichardW, myglaren

Posts: 1409
Joined: 22 May 2008, 22:29

Post by vince » 14 Sep 2010, 23:27

Great news Jim on both fronts......Linda has her driving test on October 7th...Fingers crossed :wink: Her first car will be a Xantia VSX :D

I must admit im very envious of your new purchase...although i havent seen the V6 in the flesh, i can imagine what it looks like and also the condition it will be in...not to mention the drive :wink:

You never know.....maybe one day i will be the proud owner of a v6? Linda can drive the TD :)

Look forward to seeing the new Jim...c'mon 8-)

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 15 Sep 2010, 08:27

I shall be playing Lexia this weekend on the new V6 Richard :D I have a lot to learn on that front! MK2s are still very new to me...

I shall be taking her to Twickers on Sunday. Robyn is spending the weekend down there and her pal is driving them down but she can't bring her back so I have a nice excuse for a run in my new car :D

Vince, best of luck for Linda. I'm sure she'll pass no problems at all and then she can properly enjoy a Xantia :D

Pictures? It's a blue Xantia!!! We all know what they look like :lol: I must say this one does shine though. It was treated to one of those paint treatments when it was brand-new and it really shows. Shines like Bristol Bacon 8-) Goodness knows where that expression comes from. A West Country one I've known since I was a little kid...

User avatar
Monaco's youngest playboy
Posts: 4892
Joined: 25 Nov 2006, 10:15

Post by DickieG » 15 Sep 2010, 22:25

CitroJim wrote:I shall be taking her to Twickers on Sunday. Robyn is spending the weekend down there and her pal is driving them down but she can't bring her back so I have a nice excuse for a run in my new car :D

If you have time feel free to pop in for a cuppa and take a look at my new toy :D

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 22 Sep 2010, 21:48

DickieG wrote:If you have time feel free to pop in for a cuppa and take a look at my new toy :D

I would have loved to and did plan to but the M1 put paid to that :roll: A big accident just south of J13 had the motorway static :twisted: In the end, I just got to where Robyn was at the time I'd said. Rather than sitting on the M1 Richard, I'd have much rather have enjoyed a cuppa and a look at your new wheels...

Still, those seats in the new V6 are comfy. I gave them a good test on Sunday :lol:

Earlier I was speaking of the BX at CXM with the ruptured hydraulic pipe. I heard from the owner the other day that it was still going strong :D Also, after noting the strong "heartbeat" in the pipe, I tried feeling for one on my old V6 and in the event proved two things. One is that the heartbeat is there but nowhere near as strong (2-piston as against the BX's 6 piston pump maybe) and I grew bored waiting for the V6 to tick; looks like swapping the front electrovalve has well and truly put the fast ticking in soft mode problem to bed :D

I've replaced the gear quadrant illumination bulb at last. I feared it was going to be a dockyard job but in the event it was a doddle. I can now see my gears in the dark...

I just wish the next task I attempted was :twisted:

One thing my new V6 has is a working cruise control. The day I tried it out was the first time ever that I have experienced it and loved it from the off. I love it so much I vowed to spend a bit of time getting it to work on my old V6. It never has in my ownership.

Over the past few days I've been looking at it and the first thing I checked was the vacuum pipe on the pump. It's a well know problem that this pipe splits where it attached to the vacuum pump nipple. The vacuum pump is in a most awkward place, behind the front bumper. Access is just possible by feeling up under the mudshield. I felt, looked, and found a split hose. Great, that's it. That was easy. I went for a test drive. No cruise :(

Next up, I checked the cruise relay. Pressing the cruise switch on the dash should have resulted in a click from said relay. No relays clicked. Ah-ha. There's the problem thought I. Where's the relay? Now, at this point one has question what the Xantia designers were on. Firstly, why mount the cruise vacuum pump under the front bumper? And then why on earth did they put the cruise relay in a stonking great box held together with FIVE torx screws under the RH wing? I mean :roll: :twisted:

And then, where is the cruise ECU? Another barmy location. Under the drivers-side B pillar and nearly inaccessible :twisted:

So, this relay, when I got to it, I found it wasn't clicking. Why? Strange. All the wiring checks OK. Must be the switch. Then I noticed that with cruise on the rear windows wouldn't go up and down :? Turn cruise off and they would. :roll: Then I noticed that if you pressed the rear window inhibit switch the cruise relay operated! Simples. I'd got the switches round the wrong way when I had the dash out to do the matrix last year.

They're identical switches so no problem there. Once I knew. That'll have fixed it for sure. Still no cruise. Then I checked the brake pedal switch, another well known cruise showstopper. Sure enough it was not working. Switch apart and a clean of the contacts saw it in good order again. Surely now that's it. Still no cruise :twisted:

What the...

I had a good look at the diagrams and did some tests at the ECU connector. All signals present that needed to be so. Then I thought I'd test the vacuum pump. A meter reading showed the motor open-circuit. I guess years of disuse had left the commutator or brushes a bit grubby. I forced 12V up it and after walloping it, it burst into life and ran a treat :D Excellent. I also tested the vacuum dump valve and found it gave out a nice healthy click.

Good, I now must have cruise. Nope :cry:

Bloody hell. What now? I checked the vacuum bellows on the throttle body by sucking on it and that was good. I then force-ran the pump and found it was running fine but producing very little vacuum. Just enough to crease the bellows a bit whereas it should have pulled the bellows right up tight.

So, after all that it looks like there is still a vacuum leak or the dump valve is leaking or the pump itself is weak. It now means the pump assembly has to be extricated from it's near inaccessible location and be looked at on the bench. A job for another week I fear...

Seems the system needs all the vacuum it can get and what the pump produces is just enough when everything is OK. Have a few marginals and it cannot cope :twisted:

The system is made by Hella. All I know is that it's a Hella of a job to get it working :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

User avatar
Posts: 8111
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 23:08

Post by Citroenmad » 22 Sep 2010, 21:55

Ah, thats sure to be an excellent car, i couldnt think of who's car it would be but it makes snese now. You will have to get some pictures up of it soon Jim 8-)

Congratulations to your daughter, she must be over the moon, and i bet your glad of the taxi driving too!

Cruise control is excellent, it should be standard on everything!

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 22 Sep 2010, 22:08

Thanks Chris :D It's still funny to see Robyn's car gone from it's normal parking space when she's out and about and even stranger to see her arrive back, all on her own and no "L"s up...

I'll get used to it :lol: I had to do the taxi run to pick up Siany this evening though; Robyn was off out in her car enjoying a meal out with her boyfriend... She has a new-found freedom!

Citroenmad wrote:Cruise control is excellent, it should be standard on everything!

I agree wholeheartedly, hence why I'm so busy trying to get it working on old V6! Cruise, a big lazy engine and an autobox make a great combination :D

Pictures of my new V6? It's a blue, albeit a very shiny blue, Xantia. We all know exactly what they look like :lol: :lol:

I will though. It'll hopefully be parked somewhere very scenic this weekend on the Norfolk Broads. I'll try to remember my camera...

User avatar
Posts: 883
Joined: 01 Apr 2009, 21:06

Post by davetherave » 22 Sep 2010, 22:08

Jim i sympathise entirely...
I have been through a few of the steps you have! I have done the brake pedal switch, replaced a hose, replaced a switch, swore a bit.
And still no cruise.
As you say a job for another day....
Hope you get it working!

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 22 Sep 2010, 22:15

davetherave wrote:Hope you get it working!

I will Dave. It's a case of Cruise V CitroJim now and I don't plan on loosing this battle :twisted:

I hope I'll be able to give some useful pointers to you after the conclusion of this epic battle.

There's a wonderfully detailed and valuable article on fault-finding cruise in the XM column in the September 2008 edition of the Citroenian. The XM and Xantia systems are absolutely identical except the components seem easier to get at in the XM...

Let me know if you'd like a look at it Dave...

Posts: 4476
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 20:07

Post by jgra1 » 22 Sep 2010, 23:07

great stuff Jim :D you have a S2 xant :shock: :lol:

cruise... yeah it's v handy with that engine/box combination, good luck in sorting it ;)

User avatar
Posts: 8111
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 23:08

Post by Citroenmad » 22 Sep 2010, 23:19

I liked cruise so much i actually retro fitted it to one of my previous cars. Somehting which was never available with cruise control from new but after soldering wires into the ECU, a lot of faffing, programing and fitting a genuine cruise stalk from another model i had it working. I wasnt the first to fit it on that model but it made the car, though i bet its never been used since i had the car.

Two of our C5s have cruise, mine doesnt. Its on my to do list, but with the
off/on relationship i have with my car ive had it on the back burner.

Posts: 1128
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11

Post by admiral51 » 22 Sep 2010, 23:59

Not really Citroen related but have got cruise and a wierd gearbox on my work lorry :)
It makes driving ever so lazy :D :D
Its a 16 speed box (4 over 4 with a half gear in each inc reverse) but has a button on the gear stick that when pressed allows for clutchless gear changes.Press button in, move gear stick,release button and away you go.It even works with cruise.Set speed to max(56 mph ish :wink: ) and you can change up and down without touching clutch or go pedal :D :D
You can even approach a juntion with button presed in,move stick to correct gear and providing you have rolling wheels when you release button away you go.... although it makes a funny noise when you forget to use your left foot moving off from stationary :lol: :lol:


User avatar
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 5504
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03

Post by xantia_v6 » 23 Sep 2010, 06:55

One more thing to check, Jim, is a blocked hose. On one occasion when mine split (I think I have shortened it 4 times now :shock: ), while flailing about one handed and blind under the bumper I got a small quantity of something rubbery and gooey into the spigot on the pump, more or less blocking the hole.

After that you could feel the bellows trying to work (it would pull the pedal down an inch or so), but the cruise would not hold speed. I suspect (but have not checked) that the bellows has an intentional calibrated leak.

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 23 Sep 2010, 08:54

xantia_v6 wrote:One more thing to check, Jim, is a blocked hose.

Ahh, great stuff! Now that is something to check. I did wonder as the hose that had split had been off for some time and was well coated with general road muck.

I might be able to check without fighting the pump out into the open air bust somehow I think the best way will be to get the pump out and give it a good overhaul.

You know there is a round affair on the side of the pump with a white spigot and a few pipes connected. Is that a vacuum regulator?

User avatar
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41572
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33

Post by CitroJim » 28 Sep 2010, 21:28

I have cruise control :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

After much more exhaustive testing, I proved the vacuum pump very good by applying +12V to pin 1 of the cruise ECU connector and earthing pins 6 and 7 of the same connector. This makes the pump run with both dump valves shut. I had a very strong vacuum at the bellows :D

I then checked all the conditions that should be present on the ECU were there and that was all good. I then checked the bellows...

Here was the problem. A small hole had worn in them where the bellows had been chafing the injection wiring harness.

Here's the hole:


And here's the loom that's the cause of it:


The loom had got very stiff over the years and was no longer properly secured to the channel it runs in just in front of the inlet manifold. I re-dressd the loom out of the way and ensured the bellows had clearance.

I then repaired the bellows with a bicycle tube puncture repair patch...


After checking for clearance, I put all together and went for a test drive..

It works a treat! How long the patch will last is another question. I'm now on the lookout for a spare bellows...

On my test drive I discovered I'd also cured another long-standing problem quite unwittingly. I'd lost my annoying low-speed trailing-throttle snatchy gearchanges :D

The only explanation I can think of is that the bellows fouling the loom was keeping the throttle a little open on the over-run and thus preventing the engine ECU sensing the throttle closed condition quickly enough and then relaying it to the gearbox ECU. I ought to have twigged as the ECU should prevent down-changes on trailing throttle and sometimes mine did, especially braking at a junction when it would really snatch first. All a thing of the past now...

That and a bit of news from Xac has made my evening :P

Posts: 1358
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 22:31

Post by Toby_HDi » 28 Sep 2010, 21:38

Great news Jim,

Now just remember not to recall last memorised speed after leaving a dual carriageway.

I've been told that on the auto box, it'll drop two gears and accelerate hard to get back up to speed! :lol: