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MikeT
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My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
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Post by MikeT » 14 Sep 2010, 20:35

Under advice of a tyre fitter, I've swapped a rear for the spare due to a cut in the tread. I was more worried about the crack circumferencing the tyre wall but either way it's off now. I also adjusted the headlights down two turns as I won't be correcting the front height until next week.

While on the subject of tyres, he tells me he's got a good set of part-worn (more like hardly worn from first glimpse) Pirellis and, although there's ok tread on my Michelin's (except the front's outer shoulders), I'd probably be better off with more tread for the winter months. Are Pirelli's ok for the Xantia? A quick search shows mixed views. At £40 the set, fitted and balanced, I think it's a good deal.

As far as tuning goes, I'm now at the point of fine tuning and, as usual, took the car for a test drive around local roads only to come across this....

Click to play video.
Image

Being the good boy scout I am :P I saw the smoke and grabbed my fire extinguisher - others had already called the emergency services while the rest of the backing up traffic just enjoyed the show, blocking the roads so the emergency services didn't have a clear route in.

Note on the top of the van, the dog was already out, shaken but not hurt while the driver pulled himself clear, presumably through the window. I was told he had blood on his head but as I got there, he was off, up and over the fence into the fields behind. :shock:

Once the fire service were on scene, I departed as I had not witnessed the crash so could offer no witness statement.

I went back into test drive mode and a little while later I was on the dual-carriageway heading back toward the direction of the accident. As is all too common, I came across a rolling-road block, hogging the outside lane at 50mph either through incompetence, mischief or sheer bloody mindedness, I don't know but I find it hard to believe it was through lack of observation. As I patiently waited in vain for the car to move aside, I noticed the blues and two's were coming a way back so vacated the outside lane and observed. 30 seconds later, the driver still had no immediate intention of moving over, not even for an emergency vehicle on a call.

Image

As you can see in the video, I suspect the driver either had no idea what to do or thought it funny to hinder. Note he nearly fell off the road changing lanes!

With the outside lane clear, I decided I was best in front of said idiot but as it transpires, said idiot, despite the approaching junction and 40mph limit, decided he wanted to race me and suddenly found his car could do more than 50mph. :roll:
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
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Xaccers
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Post by Xaccers » 14 Sep 2010, 20:48

Absolute plonker!
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1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
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MikeT
Posts: 3987
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 68

Post by MikeT » 18 Sep 2010, 17:19

Today I got the use of the car lift again and set about lowering the front height. I've obviously gone too far in my experimenting as I caught the bottom of the bumper on the ramp while reversing off the lift :(

The ride is much improved but due to being too low is far from ideal, not least because there's a noticeable wobble transmitted through the gear lever on acceleration. It's altogether made the suspension much firmer and I quite like the low-slung ride but it's too firm for long journeys and pot-holes.
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MikeT
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Post by MikeT » 28 Sep 2010, 22:29

I forgot to upate my last, I've since reset the front a bit higher and it's much better now. It's surprising how much difference the right height makes. Being such a fine adjustment I think a screw adjuster would be most welcome as it's difficult to move the clamp in fine increments.

I'm also pleased to report I've cut my teeth on my first V6 cambelt kit fitment. Very interesting dealing with four cams and the belt alignment using various bolts and drill bits for locking pins :lol: What's with those adjustable pulley's? That's cheating :P
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2010, 06:13

It's amazing to me just how much difference it makes getting ride height right Mike. It's a horrible job and well done :D

Well done too on the V6 cambelt. Excellent! Not a bad job is it? I take it you used the eccentric tensioner....

Those vernier pulleys are essential to get the timing right across the four cams. Not cheating at all :lol:

Hope you replaced the water pump when you were there....
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MikeT
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Post by MikeT » 29 Sep 2010, 10:23

CitroJim wrote:Well done too on the V6 cambelt. Excellent! Not a bad job is it? I take it you used the eccentric tensioner....

Those vernier pulleys are essential to get the timing right across the four cams. Not cheating at all :lol:

Hope you replaced the water pump when you were there....


It wasn't a job I did alone, I was merely the assistant but it's all good learning - and did we learn! :lol:

Yes, eccentric tensioner and adjustable backplate, all idlers and water pump replaced. Just as well, as at 90Kmiles the water pump had signs of weeping and most idlers felt rough, loose or worn. The tensioner bearing however seemed the least worn and re-usable IMO but got replaced all the same.

I was wondering if it's at all possible to experiment and "tune" the valve timing or is that dangerous? I suppose there's limited movement to be of any real value?

One thing we couldn't do was locate the block drain plug... and refilling the coolant was a painfully slow process, like there was a blockage. Is that normal?
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Post by jgra1 » 29 Sep 2010, 10:30

hi Mike, if i remember the other rear drain plug is a pain to find.. adding coolant does take a while too! even with all bleeds open I still had a matrix air lock that would only go after more revs applied..

I did read once about advancing all cams to increase power.. I can't remember where I read this though..
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Post by Toby_HDi » 29 Sep 2010, 15:22

CitroJim wrote:It's amazing to me just how much difference it makes getting ride height right Mike. It's a horrible job and well done :D

Well done too on the V6 cambelt. Excellent! Not a bad job is it? I take it you used the eccentric tensioner....

Those vernier pulleys are essential to get the timing right across the four cams. Not cheating at all :lol:

Hope you replaced the water pump when you were there....


Jim can you explain how the pulleys work exactly? Whilst all is seemingly fine, I cannot shift from my mind that there was a particular part of the procedure I misinterpreted and therefore was carried out incorrectly, possibly knocking the timing out ever so slightly.

Mike, many many thanks for your help the last couple of days. It is much appreciated.
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2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
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2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
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1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2010, 17:49

Toby_HDi wrote:Jim can you explain how the pulleys work exactly? Whilst all is seemingly fine, I cannot shift from my mind that there was a particular part of the procedure I misinterpreted and therefore was carried out incorrectly, possibly knocking the timing out ever so slightly.


Hi Toby,

The pulleys work like this: The inner part of the pulley, attached to the camshaft, is pinned before loosening the outer part of the pulley, which is then free to rotate a little relative to the pinned camshaft. The new belt is put on with the outer pulleys loose and tensioned, ensuring there is still some travel available on the outer pulleys (i.e. they're not at the end of the slots). Then the pulleys are tightened, and the pins removed, The engine should then be slowly rotated two revolutions and the timing rechecked. It should be spot-on.

The fundamental reason is that if the pulleys were not able to have some limited independent movement, you'd never get a belt on and properly tensioned. It basically takes up small tolerance errors in the belt dimensions.

As long as you followed the procedure to the letter and rechecked the timing after rotating the engine a few times then you'll be absolutely fine.
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Toby_HDi
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Post by Toby_HDi » 29 Sep 2010, 18:11

Thanks Jim.

Means I did misinterpret it then and its probably not quite right.
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Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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CitroJim
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Posts: 39386
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Post by CitroJim » 29 Sep 2010, 18:36

Toby,

The biggest problem is finding out that in putting on the belt, one or more of the pulleys has run out of travel on its slots. I can't recall now exactly which way it is but the advice is to set all pulleys at one end of their travel before fitting the belt and rotating them all a bit toward the middle of their travels as you fit the belt so that none remain at the ends of their travels.

If one or more ends up running out of travel it's (sadly) a case of havingt he belt off and starting all over again :(

In practice, one or more cams will end up a tadette out of time when you remove the pins and spin the engine over. Half a hole seems OK. Most I've seen are about this out on one or more cams.

MikeT wrote:I was wondering if it's at all possible to experiment and "tune" the valve timing or is that dangerous? I suppose there's limited movement to be of any real value?


I suppose you could Mike but before doing so I'd like to have a look at a scrap engine and see just how far you can go before you run the risk of valves and pistons getting too intimate.

Although I've not had a V6 head off, I have a feeling there is not much space in there going on the design of the combustion chambers.

And would it help to experiment anyway? I guess PSA have the valve timing pretty much optimal already...
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Post by Toby_HDi » 29 Sep 2010, 18:45

Right,

I'll own up now.

After fitting the timing belt and spinning it over a few time we found the timing holes still wouldn't line up properly. This is where I misinterpreted the procedure.

With the belt on and tensioned, we loosened the pulley bolts and moved the cam hubs themselves (and therefore the cams - not the pulleys) very very slightly to get them to line up.

Now I fear the timing will be out and I have no idea how to set it back.

PS. sorry for hi-jacking your blog Mike.
Last edited by Toby_HDi on 29 Sep 2010, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Toby


Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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MikeT
Posts: 3987
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 68

Post by MikeT » 29 Sep 2010, 18:45

Toby_HDi wrote:Thanks Jim.

Means I did misinterpret it then and its probably not quite right.


Hi Toby,

Glad we got it finished, was a complete washout today! Is it running okay and did you need to top up or bleed the coolant any more?

Is it the crank timing position that's bothering you as I'm sure the cam to cam timings were spot on? If you like, I'm happy to get stuck in again and help you corrrect that?

EDIT: I've just read your explanation. The problem, as I see it, was we somehow lost the timing on the rear bank and had to bring the cams back to line up the holes. Once we'd done that, the cam holes were lined up ok.
Last edited by MikeT on 29 Sep 2010, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Toby_HDi
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Post by Toby_HDi » 29 Sep 2010, 18:47

MikeT wrote:
Toby_HDi wrote:Thanks Jim.

Means I did misinterpret it then and its probably not quite right.


Hi Toby,

Glad we got it finished, was a complete washout today! Is it running okay and did you need to top up or bleed the coolant any more?

Is it the crank timing position that's bothering you as I'm sure the cam to cam timings were spot on? If you like, I'm happy to get stuck in again and help you corrrect that?


Indeed, appalling weather.

Coolant was pretty much spot on, I topped it up a tad but not a lot.

Its the cam timings as per my post above.
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Toby


Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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MikeT
Posts: 3987
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 68

Post by MikeT » 29 Sep 2010, 19:03

Toby_HDi wrote:Now I fear the timing will be out and I have no idea how to set it back.

PS. sorry for hi-jacking your blog Mike.


It's the holes that determine the timing - that's how we got it back. We got the holes lined up and could insert all four pins easily with the crank - albeit possibly slightly off (by less than 0.5mm) - locked. Jim, John, anyone, please confirm I'm not mistaken?!

You're not hi-jacking where the thread owner starts the topic :wink:
Last edited by MikeT on 29 Sep 2010, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
CX 2400 GTi