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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 25 Mar 2009, 19:21

Hi Jim, ditto!

Have you got that 'box fixed yet? Will have to "follow" you around your home circuit again when fixed.

Coincidentally, you saying about the fans, I just had my nephew call to ask if we can work on the car tomorrow, so the electrics will be looked at again soon.

I also notice you're looking for garden suggestions - my vote, goes to vegetables. Sell the turf, ship in a 50 or so yards of well-rotted compost etc.
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
CX 2400 GTi

jgra1
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Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
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Post by jgra1 » 26 Mar 2009, 14:58

are you planning any trips this way?


may well do soon Mike :)

whether I bring the Xant, the V6, the chev or the VFR is anyones guess :D
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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 27 Mar 2009, 19:27

jgra1 wrote:whether I bring the Xant, the V6, the chev or the VFR is anyones guess :D
No worries, I can handle them all :wink:

Just to add to my blog - it rained when my nephew came over to assist so we managed to avoid the fan problem and sat inside the car "pursuading" the centre console to come off. Luckily, my handbrake travels too high at the moment so with two of us, brute force won the day and off it came! :lol:

This allowed us to make the holes necessary to pass the extra wires and pipe through and fit it all neatly back together again. (It's not perfect and I might regret chosing that route in the future but it does for now).

I temporarily hooked up the boost gauge but as soon as I started the engine I noticed a problem in that the needle oscillates (faster than the eye can see) about 1mm either side of 0psi at idle. Revving it up in neutral didn't stop the oscillating and the resultant vibration also causes an unacceptably loud buzzing.

I was also surprised to see the gauge reach 10psi when revved to 4000rpm - considering I previously measured the wastegate opening at 8psi I can only surmise I didn't set the boost controller fully open. :roll: Temptation got the better of me wondering what the maximum boost is under load and once again I was surprised - it hit 18psi. :oops:
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
CX 2400 GTi

jgra1
Posts: 4363
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 20:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Honda VFR800 Fix
Honda Goldwing 1500/6 old and gold
x 10

Post by jgra1 » 27 Mar 2009, 20:34

hi Mike, :D

where is the gauge plumbed in, in the intake?

Mine reads 16-17 maximum .. although I would expect some losses down the line, I have tee'd it off from the small pipe to the UFO diaphragm

J
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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 27 Mar 2009, 21:30

I've currently got it tee'd into the boost controller feed so it's pre-intercooler. I don't know how much psi is lost through the induction system. I'm wondering if I need to fit a damper to sort the excited gauge needle?
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 16 Apr 2009, 18:57

After testing the boost controller and gauge, I next moved onto the exhaust temperature gauge but initial tests showed something not right - the needle swept to maximum when powered up. The suppliers believed it was a faulty gauge so sent me a replacement kit minus the probe - only for me to then find the fault is actually with the thermocouple :roll:

Very kindly, the suppliers then forwarded the new probe the next day and told me to return my original kit in the original packaging and there'll be no charge! How's that for service??

Only problem was getting the old probe out - it was threaded into the centre top of the exhaust manifold :evil: Dead easy on the bench but an entirely different challenge in-situ. With a lot patience and loss of skin, plus a bulk order of Malcolm's percywhatsit, the old probe was retrieved and the new one fitted in it's place yesterday.

This means the centre console has to come off again but that was on the cards anyway as we'd somehow forgotten to route a connector lead needed for a future upgrade/experiment.

However, I'm beginning to hear a nasty clack, whack or smack when starting or shutting off the engine. It reminds me of the sound I would hear when the crank pulley woodruff keyhole demolished itself. A cursory glance shows the pulley or bolt is not loose so could it be anything else? The tensioner for instance?

Whatever it is, it hasn't negatively affected the power output. In fact, I'm quite astonished with the transformation, considering I haven't tuned the fuelling to match the boost increase. It goes through the gears quite rapidly and I suspect it could push through a sixth if it were available (and I was on a private track) 8)
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
CX 2400 GTi

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MikeT
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 01 May 2009, 18:44

I've been avoiding the fault-finding part due to lack of enthusiasm so cracked on with my modifications first.

In the cabin, I intend to install two gauges, three switches and maybe an LED or two so I ran two pairs of wires from the engine bay. These will provide ignition-switched power in, and switchable power/signals out.

At the battery, I've connected two inline fuses (waterproof with an LED indicator) via relays which will be switched from the cabin. One will feed my pump while the other will feed the solenoid. Their earths will also be controlled via a boost switch and a wide open throttle micro-switch, respectively.
The pump, which will be plumbed into the washer tank, is fairly large and seemed like it wouldn't fit anywhere near the tank or under the bonnet for that matter! Fortunately, this car has no ABS, hence no ABS ECU either. So, pushing the LHM tank aside, I removed the unused ABS mounting tray and drilled four pilot holes to mount the pump to - job done :)

[I let my nephew drill the washer-tank but I regret it now as he went on and used a wrench to thread the bung in instead of his fingers :roll:]

The solenoid is a lot smaller and could be mounted almost anywhere but preferably within 12 inches of the intake manifold mouth. With a bit of meditating (have a fag break and a think) - after removing the two dead factory-fitted solenoids (EGR and Cold Start), my solenoid happily bolted in their place instead - another job done :)

Flushed with success, I felt adamant that I would make headway with this elusive cooling fan problem and managed to narrow down the open circuit. I logically tested from the battery lead to the fan relay, via the fuses and managed to eliminate some of the circuit. At this point, I noticed kids passing by and realised I hadn't had my lunch so this is where work has stopped. There's a break between the fuse box (F14) and the fan relay.
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
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MikeT
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x 43

Post by MikeT » 02 May 2009, 20:33

I would like to thank Toby for popping round today to return the battery I'd lent him earlier. He said he had no plans for the afternoon so I'm sure I hadn't kept him from anything important while he assisted me for several hours trying to trace this wire break.

Together, we learnt how to remove the front bumper and whatever the big black plastic bit is that the bumper fits into/wraps around. Unfortunately, it was my turn to shear a bolt or two in the process but that'll be fixed on refittment.

Starting at the bitron, we tested for continuity from the fuse box and it too failed. We then moved onto the infamous harness under the radiator and unravelled the loom to identify the wire only to find no continuity there either. Tracing the harness into the O/S wing, things got a lot more confusing as Toby could not find the right wire initially and neither could I but we did find a heavier gauge B14 and then the penny's began dropping; From the fuse box F14 is carried along B14 wire under the wing. Toby then discovered, hidden between the wing and washer bottle, inside the harness, was a sealed splice/joint combining two heavy gauge wires to two lighter gauge wires, one of which was our B14C. I can't recall which was which exactly but there was B14, B14C, B14D and B14F :roll:

As soon as I saw that splice I had a feeling the fault lay within and sure enough B14 broke away at the first tug - and it had no visible core wire :shock: . A dusting of green powdered insulation confirmed my suspicions and we began splitting the splice open at which point the second heavy gauge wire broke off, this time showing a few strands of wire. This picture shows the remaining lighter gauge wires which appeared to be set in a sort of rubberised glue/resin. Initially I thought the green powder was oxidised wire but it is in fact the remains of the insulation - so brittle it crumbled.

Image

Feel free to guess what happened to this splice/joint - the only explanation we could come up with was excessive localised heat due to excessive resistance but how that came about is a mystery as nothing else was damaged and the splice was pretty well protected in the middle of the loom, wrapped in wool-type harness.
Last edited by MikeT on 08 May 2009, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 02 May 2009, 20:50

Excellent stuff Mike :D The infamous 10AV loom strikes again!

That was caused by corrosion. Moisture had gotten in and the green powder you saw was not insulation but verdigris (copper sulphate). It happens at a soldered splice as the alloying of the solder makes the wire more prone to corrosion. It could even have been accellerated by the flux used to make the splice.

I've seen this sort of failure loads of times and not only in automotive wiring looms. It used to happen a lot on our outdoor coaxial aerial feeder lines and you'd be surprised at how little moisture it takes to set off this sort of corrosion.

A real good effort Mike and full marks for sticking with it and finding it :D

Use crimp butts to effect a repair and cover them in silicone grease. That's what BT use on their telephone cable splices and it works perfectly for them.
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Toby_HDi
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Post by Toby_HDi » 02 May 2009, 22:33

My pleasure Mike, was good to do something, especially as the fault now seems to have been traced. :D

MikeT wrote:I can't recall which was which exactly but there was B14, B14C, B14D and B14F :roll:


Very confusing indeed. I recall B14 being the heavier gauge wire running from the cabin, under the arch to the splice. B14A ran from the splice into the connector in the wing, becoming B14F along the way. B14C ran from the splice, under the radiator to the Bitron unit. B14D routed from the Bitron unit to the relay via another connector on that side of the car I believe.

I am also intrigued as to what that unit was that was found with no connectors yet still plugged into the loom. I cannot recall exactly where it was mounted but in the vicinity of the Bitron unit.

Do let us know the outcome of the repair to the splice.
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Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
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2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate

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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 03 May 2009, 10:18

Thanks Jim though I can't really take full credit as I couldn't have done it on my own - Toby even showed me how to make better sense of the wiring diagrams you provided - theory doesn't sink in so well without the practical experience.

If 10AV is the loom you predicted then I take it back - you had guessed correctly (though I presumed you were referring to the low part of it under the radiator where water always collects). I'm very surprised to learn they were soldered as I did not see any solder or flux remnants at all and it was my intention to make them good with solder again. Even if I chose to join them with crimps, I would have soldered the wire to the crimp for added security. I'll not bother now.

Thanks again Toby, I wasn't intending to work on the car but you provided the opportunity and apart from the pain and stiffness I'm suffering, I'm pleased we made use of it and got a result.

I tried to better understand the diagrams and where that fourth wire belonged (heavy gauge from fuse box that was twinned with B14) but couldn't determine that at all. And there must be more diagrams I don't have that show the position of the splices.
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
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MikeT
Posts: 3813
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Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 05 May 2009, 19:11

With my nephew insisting he come over and work on my car (I haven't recovered enough yet) we got the wires rejoined (I assume all four need to be connected together as that's how they looked in the original splice - the diagrams don't show all four) and all the remaining spaghetti pushed back into their socks and conduits adding a few winds of tape and numerous tie-wraps. He made a very good and neat job IMO.

While the front bumper is removed I took the opportunity to see why my N/S foglight was mal- adjusted and found one of the three fixing pylons had been completely snapped off. A coating of plastic expoxy glue followed by a few layers of chemical metal might do the trick.

Click for larger image
Image
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Koukku
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Post by Koukku » 06 May 2009, 07:54

MikeT wrote:While the front bumper is removed I took the opportunity to see why my N/S foglight was mal- adjusted and found one of the three fixing pylons had been completely snapped off. A coating of plastic expoxy glue followed by a few layers of chemical metal might do the trick.

Click for larger image
Image


That's probably exactly the same that my N/S fog light is suffering from, although my N/S is the left side... ;) It feels like it's a bit loose from one end, and it's a bit tilted to the right.
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- V6 Activa / Mini R53 JCW -

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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 08 May 2009, 22:13

My foglight looked wonky the day I saw it and, as you describe, it was pointing too far inwards and upwards due to the lack of support in the top inner corner. It's back on now but how well that glue will hold is anyone's guess.

The saga continues, the bumper was replaced (though it's not well aligned - it seems the factory use some sort of moulding/setting rubber in the locators which is now "baggy") minus one bolt (for now) and lights refitted, wiring tucked up neatly and securely and the battery refitted after a recharge. Which can only mean.....

It was time to test the fan function. I didn't want to start the car, let alone run it up to hot temperatures so decided to pull the brown temperature sensor connector off and turn on the ignition. It's a small delay but it seemed like a bloody eternity and my heart sank.... then I heard the gentle wisp and rubbernecked to the front of the car to see both fans were indeed revolving at half speed and before I knew it, instantly upped the pace to full blast. I'm chuffed to... (...you know what) :D and it's all down to this forum and the wisdom and work of it's members =D>

I can now concentrate on my intended improvements and think about washing the moss and cobwebs off.

With the MOT looming, I'll have to tune it down a fair bit as it's smokey as hell at wide open throttle. (Which has left me a little confused as it was clean as a whistle before the intakes were cleared out.)
Then the turbo catches up 8)
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98 S2 Xantia Hatch 1.9TD 143K
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MikeT
Posts: 3813
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
x 43

Post by MikeT » 30 May 2009, 18:47

Time's passing by and not much progress to report other than she's still starting first time and rising/falling as expected etc. I noticed the accumulator sphere is way past it's best, clicking every 3-7 secs on normal and full height settings, otherwise looking good if I say so myself. (I never noticed before but from high to normal setting, the rear begins to drop first then pauses while the front drops to the right level before the rear completes it's movement).

I'm 99.9% sure but do you think she's sitting a little too high for normal?

Image

I do have some mods to declare but until everything's up and running reliably I won't go into detail. I've still to finish designing and installing it all and I'm in no hurry, even if I could work quickly.

Here's a teaser for those that can't wait :P Image


Then there's the good old MOT to pass as well of which I've been hearing people not able to get theirs as the DVLA login is playing up. I'm sure I read that there's a contingency in place to avoid such delays but two people I know of have been refused these last two days :?

What lovely weather we've been having - already seeing the lobsters abound while I'm still white as a ghost. :lol:
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