Air con for beginners! ooeerr..

Post your Cit/Peu/Ren air conditioning queries or advice.

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James.UK
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Air con for beginners! ooeerr..

Post by James.UK » 19 Jun 2006, 22:31

I bought a car with the air con needing regassing.. (being carefull here not to mention it's a Honda accord 2.0iSE auto 1996) :lol:

So I paid £60 to have it regassed.. It worked great for 10 days.. But..

It stopped blowing cold air, on checking yesterday I could hear the fan come on at the front of the car, today though, nothing seems to happen at all?

The light comes on on the dash as long as the cars fan is active, but no cold air is available.

problems.. I tried to see if the elecmagnet engaged the clutch on the compressor. But (A) cant see much down among the pulleys, and (B) have no idea what to look for.. :oops:

I have looked on HowStuffWorks but it's not realy much help although at least I know what parts are involved now. :) .. Any help would be appreciated with finding info, links to diagrammes, The normal sequence to fault finding etc etc..

Thanks... :)
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James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.

Adstar
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Post by Adstar » 20 Jun 2006, 10:31

Try this site for some basic info. Sounds to me like you need to go back to the regassing company!

http://www.coolcaraircon.co.uk/questions.htm
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605 Only an SL but it is a DT with a shake rattle and role!
Mk 1 MR2 waiting to have the final useful bits removed... RIP.

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Post by mezuk04 » 20 Jun 2006, 10:43

If its stopped after 10 days, then maybe you should be checking with the garage, seems a little odd to me.
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Post by RichardW » 20 Jun 2006, 12:27

The most likely cause is that the gas has leaked out again. Did the garage vac the system out and hold the vacuum for 1/2 hour or so to check for leaks? They may have added a UV sensitive dye so that they can find the leak. Probably the condenser or the pipes - expect to pay ££££ to repair!

What you're looking for on the compressor is the end of the pulley being stationary when switched off, then starting to go round when switched on.
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A mornings work on the internet!

Post by Adstar » 20 Jun 2006, 13:18

Having spent the morning researching aircon systems and gases, I have another scary alternative to why your aircon has died!

Do you know if your aircon had R12 gas in originally? This is likely/possible with the age of the car and that it is japanese (Don't ask why it's just what I have read!)

Did your Regas man replace the R12 (Assuming you had that) with R134a?

IF, and it is still an IF, this is what happened then your compressor could have burnt out. R12 (Which is packed with wholesum CFCs and is therefore 'illegal' (Your not forced to replace it but you can not have it refilled with this gas!)) uses mineral oil to lubricate. R134a uses sysnthetic oil, but also opperates at a higher pressure than the R12, and has a smaller molecule size.

IF this is what has occurred, the gas could have escaped very quickly out of any previously small and insignificant leak, or apparently, very easily out of the shaft seals on the compressor! Therefore emptying your aircn system rapidly.

The introduction of the R134 can have effects on the drier, breaking down the silca gel beads or whatever, this causes even bigger problems with contamination in the system.

It is NOT all doom and gloom. This is just a POSSIBLE outcome. I have read claims that as long as the R12 system was thoroughly vacuumed (R134a cannot mix with mineral oil) then systems have lasted on a straight r134 replacement. There is also the matter of the R12 and R134 connections being different.

But as has been hinted at previously, your best bet is to go back to the man that did the work in the first place.
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605 Only an SL but it is a DT with a shake rattle and role!
Mk 1 MR2 waiting to have the final useful bits removed... RIP.

James.UK
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Post by James.UK » 20 Jun 2006, 14:58

What happened was --- :? ... I went to my usual mechanic about 12 days ago to ask where I could get the air-con on my 'new' car gassed up.. By coincidence the man he uses was there doing 4 other cars? he had already done one of them, and was just disconnecting his pipes from a black VW stating it would go to the back of the queue as it had a leak.. :shock:

As I was the only person actualy waiting with a car, he let me jump the queue and did my car next, he connected the pipes.. watched some guages for about 20 mins while the gas was being pumped in... During this time he mentioned adding some sort of Dye to the gas to check for leaks. There was definately NOT a 30 min pressure test carried out.. Or any sort of flushing out process..

Meantime I was helping to do the service and M.O.T on my ZX.. plus chatting up the office girl, so not realy paying too much atten to what the 'regass' man was doing outside. :oops: :roll:

When I went to check on re-gass progress the man was watching a lil thermometer that was sticking out of one of the central air vents, he stated it was about to freeze up! so he took it back out claiming that the car was finished and everything was working fine.. Oh.. "and that will be £60 please" dohhh. ouch!!! :oops: :roll: So I tried it, it worked, and I happily paid up.. :roll:

It is in fact my own fault, in my ignorance, I didn't ask the prev owner how long the car had been minus its gass, and I only asked the Air-con man to regass it.. :oops: So I will have to pay for those mistakes now.. :oops: :(

My 'cheap' deal on the Honda may prove to be a lot more expensive than I thought.. lol..

I have booked the car back in for an Air-con service (possible repair?) on Friday pm so will let you know what happens..

Thanks a lot for all the help and advice.. :D :D

Edit.. I found this site.. It may be of interest to others.. http://www.aircondition.com/tech/

.
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James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.

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Post by Adstar » 20 Jun 2006, 15:35

Hmmm sounds interesting.. Not sure if he 'slapped the pipes on' if you could have got the 'wrong' gas in the system (If they have different fittings etc). But I don't know. I would be worried about over filling. Apparently the gas has to be wieghed?

The site you have included looks pretty good though. Will keep me busy before I run off home at 4!
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605 Only an SL but it is a DT with a shake rattle and role!
Mk 1 MR2 waiting to have the final useful bits removed... RIP.

James.UK
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Post by James.UK » 24 Jun 2006, 00:22

The air-con "ouchies" :shock: continue..

The air-con man went to look at the car while it was in the garage having a new middle and rear section of the exhaust fitted.. Verdict was, the condenser is leaking :roll: and needs replacing.. :(

So I placed an order for a new one at a cost of £154 + VAT .. Then add the cost of a regas which he quoted as £35 :( plus of course the labour costs for swapping the condensers over and it's probably going to be over £200 altogether.. Ouch!! lol...

I am taking the car back in on Tuesday at mid day, and collecting it on Wednesday evening.. This is to allow time for them to sort the air-con out, and investigate the cars other problem of the engine surging from 500 to about 1500 revs constantly when in park or neutral.. :roll:

My ZX is looking better all the time... lmho.. :lol:
.
0 x
James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.

James.UK
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Post by James.UK » 28 Jun 2006, 20:22

New condenser fitted. Air con is now working fine again.. Thanks for the help.. :)

The surging was being caused by air leaking through the inlet maifold gasket.. Replaced the gasket, and once again all is well :)
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James. (Nr M67 East of Manchester).
Dark Blue ZX 1.9D Auto 1994 'L' 5 dr (modified) Aura. 98K miles used daily. Ave mpg 40
Wedgewood Blue 75 CTD auto Connoissaur. 2002. 144k. used daily. ave mpg 40 ish.

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fastandfurryous
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Re: A mornings work on the internet!

Post by fastandfurryous » 28 Jun 2006, 22:49

Adstar wrote:Do you know if your aircon had R12 gas in originally? This is likely/possible with the age of the car and that it is japanese


Actually, it's not likely or possible on a 1996 car, as R12 was completely banned from all new systems in the UK (and possibly in Europe too) in 1993. That was Car A/C, Fridges, Freezers, Domestic A/C, the lot.

There's no way that Honda would have been allowed to import cars with R12 systems in 1996.

Anyway... glad to hear that the problem's been solved. Personally, I think even a 30 min vac test is insufficient. To be absolutely sure that a system is going to operate for more than a couple of days, it should be vacced down for as long as it can be, and then left for 48hrs. The system should have held the vaccum when re-checked.
It's not possible to vac out a system for too long, so the longer the vac is applied for, and the longer the system can be checked for holding that vacuum, the better.
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vanny
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Re: A mornings work on the internet!

Post by vanny » 20 Jul 2006, 10:39

fastandfurryous wrote: R12 was completely banned from all new systems in the UK (and possibly in Europe too) in 1993.



Now that is REALLY usefull to know, never seen it written down before, i gathered that it was sometime in the 90's that R12 was banned but had thought it was much later!
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