Problem with wiring to Compressor

Post your Cit/Peu/Ren air conditioning queries or advice.

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KennyW
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Post by KennyW » 16 Jun 2006, 22:03

Thanks Terry for the reply,

The plug to the pressure switch where is that :?:

Is that the plug which is connected to the receiver/dryer. :oops:

I recall reading in one of the threads about the twin fans but i can't find it.

Is this the one you are refering to.

Cheers

Kenny
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Post by Clogzz » 17 Jun 2006, 14:54

Hi Kenny,

And yes, the pressure switch is the one on the dryer bottle, I could have been a bit clearer on that. :oops:
The post I can’t find is lost in a thread called ‘part for air conditioning’ or something like that.
It’s about disconnecting the plug to the sensor on the dryer bottle while the air conditioning is running.
While doing that, the fans keep spinning.
When disconnecting the plug, the clutch releases silently, and when reconnecting it, the clutch clicks back on loudly.
It’s an indication that the pressure switch has a ‘normal pressure’ sensing wire, besides also having a sensing wire for low pressure, and one for high pressure.
High and low pressure must prevent the compressor from starting, but the lack of both high or low pressure sensing, both being fault conditions, don’t allow the compressor to start yet.
It still has to sense ‘normal pressure’ to start.
That’s why the pressure sensor switch has 4 wires: feed, normal, high, and low pressure.
Hoping not to cause any more confusion. :?

Regards,
Terry.
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Post by KennyW » 17 Jun 2006, 19:03

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the reply , I've the site last night and is as you describe :wink:

I will do the test and see what happens will post reply of out come.

Cheers

Kenny.
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C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by KennyW » 18 Jun 2006, 21:40

Hi Terry and the rest of the gang,

I came home with A/C operating on auto and internal fan was blowing.

On checking external fans they were no operating but temp gauge was btn 70 C and 80 C for the engine.

Am I correct in saying that the the fans will not engage unless temp is 90 C or above. :?: :wink:

Would it be advised to let car idle to raise engine temp to activate fans and then carry out test on pressure switch or pray for more hot days 8)

Cheers

Kenny
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C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by JohnM52 » 18 Jun 2006, 21:50

Kenny,

When ircon is switched on the fans should run at lower speed. This is not dependent on engine temp, but is designed to put airflow over the aircon condensor.
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Post by Clogzz » 19 Jun 2006, 12:57

Hi Kenny,

The fans must both come on at the low speed when the air conditioning is turned on, irrespective of engine temperature, fully agreeing with JohnM’s post.
With the air conditioning turned off, the fans must only come on at the low speed when the engine temperature reaches about 90ºC.
When the engine runs cool, below 90ºC, the fans must not spin, unless the air conditioning is turned on.
The high speed must only come on when the engine gets close to overheating, over 100ºC.
What you have, is that the fans don’t work at the low speed, and probably only one fan works at the high speed.
This is a common fault, with quite some ideas in these topics:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=17012

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18871

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=18965

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=19090

Don’t think it’s a good idea to let the engine idle to get hot when there is a low speed fan fault.
Since the air conditioning works, there is no fault in the pressure sensor switch, or any part of the air conditioning system itself.
The only fault is the lack of low fan speed, and that will be a problem too even when the air conditioning is turned off, and the engine gets a bit hot in slow traffic.
I would suggest to keep a beady eye on the temperature gauge, trying to keep it from rising much above 90ºC.

Best of luck with this, it does look like we're getting close to the solution. :)

Regards,
Terry.
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Post by KennyW » 19 Jun 2006, 16:56

Thanks for the replies,

A curious thing I've noticed recently is :!: the temp gauge is working displaying the temp and it suddenly goes to zero and then returns to temp is was reading prior to the plip :?

Is this part of the problem or something else. :? :?:

JohnM I may take up your invitation re your experiences recently re the wiring.
Also will look at the threads and print off copies of the diagrams available at peugeot logic site.

Will post progress on site.

Cheers Guys

Kenny
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C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by KennyW » 19 Jun 2006, 19:12

Hi team,

Further update re problems, I've just taken off grill to look at 3 relays at cooling fans and noticed the black relay is in the left hand fan rely position and the green relay is in the change over relay position :? :?:

Will this have any effect on the operation of the fans and the sequence they run in :?:

Cheers

Kenny
0x
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by KennyW » 19 Jun 2006, 19:48

Further to the 2 previous posts,

On examination of the 3 relays their position is slightly different from the peugeot logic site

looking at the relays from the grill to the engine bay

the left hand relay is the change-over relay coloured black.
The right hand relay is green.
The bottom relay is also green.

I don't know which relay is what.

Cheers

Kenny
0x
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by JohnM52 » 19 Jun 2006, 22:32

Hi Kenny,

I cannot find chapter and verse on which relay should be in which position, but looking at various bits I have been able to find, I don't think your arrangement is correct.

You have three relays, two green and one black.
You have three possible locations for the black changeover relay; left , right and bottom. I would try the various combinations, with engine running and aircon switched on in an effort to see if fans start running slowly. This will require the two green relays to be in the other positions. It will not do any damage if the wrong combination is selected, the power goes to the fans but not in the way it was intended. WATCH YOUR FINGERS OF COURSE they are not part of the solution!! :lol:

I presume you have had no overheat problems - are you aware of hearing the fans at all, they really are unmissable on fast speed.

In view of the weather here last week, if you have used the car into town at all something would have been running at some time.
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Post by Clogzz » 20 Jun 2006, 13:03

Hi Kenny,

The temperature gauge going strange is not related to the fan fault.
I think that the gauge is operated by the blue sensor on the thermostat housing.
A good clean/squirt there may cure it.

If all 3 relays have 5 pins, they can be swapped all around.
Only the change-over relay uses all 5 pins, the other 2 relays only use 4 pins.
They may be impossible to get mixed up when the change-over relay is a different colour, because then the change-over relay socket will have a different pin layout.
The photo from this topic shows the arrangement you have, with the change-over relay at top left:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... c&start=15

Image

The ‘left fan relay’ and ‘left fan motor’ referred to in the Peugeotlogic map are as seen from the driver’s seat, so opposite to when you look at them from the front of the car.
The ‘left fan relay’ is the only one that’s energised to operate the low speed.
To find which one it is, with the ignition off remove the 2 green relays, and the one that’s got 12 Volts on pin 1 of the socket is the ‘low speed’, or ‘left fan’ relay.
The change-over relay must be in place to spin the fans at the low speed, but it’s not energised then, and the current passes through pins 3 & 4.
The other green relay is used for the high speed only, and can be left out for low speed testing and fault-finding.
Hope I got this right, and checked that I didn't contradict John's advice. :)

Best wishes,
Terry.
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Post by KennyW » 20 Jun 2006, 16:37

Thanks to both of you again,

In answer to your question John she is running fine No overheating problems but I've not been stuck in traffic long enough to see :lol:

I'm off the next couple of days and will attempt to resolve problem :wink:

Will do as suggested and see what happens.

Cheers
Kenny.
0x
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.

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Post by JohnM52 » 20 Jun 2006, 19:11

To follow up on Clogzz point:

The relay holders are all the same, with only the relevant terminals connected. A five pin relay will fit in any, as will a four pin. They just dont operate the system correctly. Due to one pin at right angles to the rest, they will only fit in one orientation though.

Not arguing at all... just for information 8) :lol:

To recap, - I will go and reread this thread - if you take the plug off the brown temp sensor on the engine block, do the fans run at full speed?
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Post by Clogzz » 21 Jun 2006, 13:14

Sorry for the potential confusion, John. :?
‘Swapping all around’ should have meant ‘swapping places’, not orientations. :oops:
It actually looks like it’s Citroën that’s got them all over the place, with several relays and sockets:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... c&start=15
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Post by KennyW » 21 Jun 2006, 14:21

Hi John and Terry,

I've not taken the brown plug of the engine block , i presume that is beside the blue plug at the thermostat housing .

Will try shortly between rain showers and other things :?: :)

Cheers

Kenny
0x
C5 x7 2.0 HDi 160 hp Estate exclusive, the newbie
Xantia 2.0 Hdi 90hp 1999 only 189,000 and rising!!!!!!! Moved on to a new home
C3 1.4 petrol (SWMBO)
Xantia TD 1.9 Mk 2 Estate LX 1998 model over 210,000 miles now and still rising!!!!!!!!!!!!! now deceased 17/12/2010.