Xantia A/C

Post your Cit/Peu/Ren air conditioning queries or advice.

Moderator: RichardW

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Xantia A/C

Post by timboskinimbo » 23 Apr 2005, 20:44

hi guys, here's a tricky one I can't figure out.[?]
97 Xantia 1.9TD with A/C
On cold startup A/C work fine, gets real cold.[:)]
When normal operating temp reached, the A/C stops completely, ie the clutch disengages.[:(]
I have had prev problems with the ignition switch, but seems fine now. The weird thing is, the rev counter starts and stops at the same time?
Could it be something to do with the temperature sensor? Bitron unit?
Wiring diagrams from haynes make no sense to me, and I can't see how the A/C and the rev counter are linked??
Any clues?
Cheers![:D][:D]

ghostrider
Posts: 360
Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 02:10

Post by ghostrider » 23 Apr 2005, 23:00

Timbo, welcome to the forum
Yup mines the same, but I think it is just coincidence, rev counter sensor goes open circuit once it is warmed up.
The air con problem is possibly related to the cooling fan problems covered in other threads, to check the fans are working, turn ignition on and then disconnect the brown sensor on the thermostat housing, both fans should run at full speed, with the sensor still disconnected turn the ignition off, the fans should drop to half speed. What you will probably find is that one fan does not run at all at full speed and neither will run at half speed. The fans are linked in series for half speed, if they don't work at this speed then when the engine temp gets to the point where the fans cut in it will also cut out the aircon at the same time to reduce the load on the engine
The fans seem to suffer with bad connections close to the fan motors, the wires run up one of the three plastic support arms that hold the motor in position.
The Bitron is under the N/s headlamp but like so many electronic devices, it gets the blame when the cause is more likely to be duff connections / worn out brushes on the motor, or corroded relay contacts, the relays for the fans hide behind a triangular piece of plastic between the two fans at the top.
Others here have managed to get the fans out without dismantling the front of the car, but due to wrong tools / imcompetence / hands too big I failed to be able to do it. Dismantled front of car, and managed to get a leak from the air con where the pipes go into the condensor, due to dissimilar metal corrosion. BE VERY careful, I had to buy new pipes, could only get them from citroen and they were a jaw dropping ?365!!!!!!!!! [:(] More than my car is worth.
Anyway try the fan test and let us know how you get on
________
Mexico city hotels
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 07:02, edited 1 time in total.

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Post by timboskinimbo » 24 Apr 2005, 01:13

Thanks ghostrider,
Tried the fan test at normal operating temp (which for this car is 70-80degC).
Both fans worked at full speed with brown connecter off/ignition on, and both fans worked at half speed with ignition off.
With a bit more careful checking, I've now found that it's not directly related to the rev counter (have you ever tried to fix that by the way?), and the A/C seemed to work today for a while longer after the car heated up, but after restarting, switched off again.
????????

ghostrider
Posts: 360
Joined: 05 Jan 2002, 02:10

Post by ghostrider » 24 Apr 2005, 04:33

I've got a new sensor which I might try and fit tomorrow after new discs and pads, driveshaft gaiter, oil and filter change, hydraflush [:(]. A/c could be either pressure switch problems or low gas levels, if Jon sees this I'm sure he'll offer some guidance
Pete
________
Rd350
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 07:02, edited 1 time in total.

Richard Gallagher
Posts: 803
Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 03:36

Post by Richard Gallagher » 24 Apr 2005, 12:18

Take a look at www.peugeotlogic.com on there is a detailed wiring diagram of the fans on a Pug 306 which has the same layout as a Xantia.

Richard Gallagher
Posts: 803
Joined: 31 Oct 2001, 03:36

Post by Richard Gallagher » 24 Apr 2005, 12:27

You're in luck chaps, I've just had a poke around www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/base/workshop.htm and in there is a description of of your fault. It would seen that the Bitron unit is prone to having a dry solder joint which is also clearly displayed in photos.
Click on the above link, then electrical, and on the left you will see '405 A/C not cold compressor not engaging'.

bernie
Posts: 882
Joined: 10 Apr 2001, 02:25

Post by bernie » 24 Apr 2005, 21:12

It's a shame there's not a similar Citroen site like http://www.peugeotlogic.com/
Unless it's hidden!!!!

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Post by timboskinimbo » 25 Apr 2005, 00:39

Thanks for all the tips guys,
I'm beginning to think it's not an electrical prob at all and I'm just borderline low on gas causing the pressure sensor to flip randomly (does that make sense????). When the A/C does work it actually doesn't get that cold.
I'm gonna try to briefly bypass the pressure sensor when it's not working to see if the clutch kicks back in.
Anybody tried those DIY R134a recharge kits? How do you know how much to put in? What about topping up the oil?
Anyway, we'll see what happens!!

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Post by timboskinimbo » 15 May 2005, 19:31

Well finally got round to bypassing the pressure swith connected to the dryer. And guess what, no response, nothing.
So I presume the gas levels are ok, but I'm still at a dead loss as to what's turning off the compressor. It happens everytime normal temperature is reached. Maybe something to do with the temperature sensor?

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Post by timboskinimbo » 15 May 2005, 19:41

I should clarify my last post. I bridged the pressure sensor when the engine temp was cold, and the compressor kicked in.
After engine at operating temp, and compressor stopped working, then tried bridging the pressure sensor and compressor just sat there and laughed at me, no response....

alan s
RIP 2010
Posts: 2542
Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 16:53
x 5

Post by alan s » 16 May 2005, 04:15

If the switch is a dual pressure (ie) LP/HP cut out, it could be that the switch is totally stuffed internally.
The other option is that there may be a problem within the system as regards a blockage and when the engine reaches operating temps, the increase in heat is increasing the pressure wihin the system for the HP side to cut out also. Mind you, if that switch is completely stuffed internally, this could also be the reason that it is dropping out prematurely. This will mean trying to bridge the other side of the switch as well.
If that has to be replaced, you will expose the system to aier and moisture and that will set off a whole new set of circumstances whereby the system will require evacuating and the receiver/dryer will need to be replaced also.
The reason I say this regarding the receiver/dryer is that if the system has moisture in it already, the symptoms will be that it will start and run until it begins to get cold at which stage the moisture will freeze in the oriface of the TX valve. This then shows the same symptom as being short of gas and the system will pump down and into vacuum at which time the LP switch will take over or the HP switch will cut in. However, when the HP switch cuts in, the fans should also go on to flat out mode.
Alan S

timboskinimbo
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Apr 2005, 20:38

Post by timboskinimbo » 17 May 2005, 02:42

Hmmmmm...
Yup, the switch is a dual pressure HP/LP.
It seems to be functioning ok tho, it can't be the low pressure side cutting out as when i bridge it, nothing happens. And it can't be the high pressure cause the fans don't go full on when the compressor cuts out.
I think I'm gonna give up, unless anyone's got any more ideas.
I have noticed significant amount of bubbles in the dryer sight glass when the system cuts in and out, and slightly when running. But if it was low on gas, the compressor should kick in when i bridge the sensor.
Maybe time for a professional look see...

alan s
RIP 2010
Posts: 2542
Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 16:53
x 5

Post by alan s » 17 May 2005, 03:20

Beginning to sound like possibly a clutch solenoid caput.
Can't speak for over there but out here an air/con specialist is a far better proposition to a dealer as far as expertise goes.
If you don't have one you can rely on or have had experience with, may pay to ask on the Citroen forum for any recommended repairers in your area as I have seen them mentioned there quite often.
Alan S